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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Soprano Saxophones / C-soprano at last...

Next 20 Messages

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 9753653 Dec 15th 1:41 PM
Well, strange thing, I put in an opening bid on a C-Soprano (Conn Pan-American) - and no-one else bothered to bid...... And its been refurbed !

So thanks (and apologies to other sellers) to any of you who have given advice on the subject. Just so you can say - 'who sold you that then ?'
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3768803712

Merry Christmas to all.... I'm all spent out now, so the dollar can recover again.

David Munoz (CAN)
User ID: 8604013 Dec 16th 1:25 PM
Congratulations! It does indeed look quite pristine.
Have a good Christmas.

David

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 9753653 Dec 16th 5:01 PM
Thanks David, bit un-nerving (it's spelt something like that) that absolutely no-one else bid, despite enquiries.

The lady selling it normally sells violins, has good feedback, gives very lterate answers, and has an English husband - so I have no reason to doubt the instrument (at 22.5" without mouthpiece). I played a PanAm C-Mel for a while, so if the PanAm soprano is half as good I'll be well satisfied...

So why then does a refurbed one sell for a lot less than a typical 'fixer' on ebay? I'll put it down to Christmas. Coincidentally I've just sold my 'spare' Pan-Am C-Melody to a lady in Dan Diego - strange old world, soprano comes from US to here, C-Mel goes back to the US !

Compliments of the season to you as well, Alan.

P.S (although the C-soprano has a mouthpiece) I have a great little 'slant signature Otto Link' Bb soprano mpc that I'm hoping will be play in tune on it, it has quite a small chamber. I got it out of a 'junk mouthpiece' box in the 60's, those were the days - wish I'd bought the whole box....

mossite
User ID: 0206274 Dec 19th 3:18 PM
Hey Alan, Congatulations! That was almost the way i fetched mine. Except the fact that no one had bid on it. So i droped a mail after the auction closed and got it even cheaper. It was completly overhault too.
Well, with the money i had saved, i had it send directly to Jason DuMars and he made a beautiful engraving on it.

By the way, i love your homepage! I will drop you a mail in the next days.

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 9753653 Dec 19th 5:33 PM
Anke - thanks, the homepage is growing slowly by the day - hopefully I'll get a lot of time over the Christmas Holiday to add bits - I have a boxload of mouthpieces waiting to be listed as well as other instruments....

The real homepage starts from
http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm with 'Pink Panther plays Buescher C-Mel'

- I just hope that there isn't too much content for non-broadband/ADSL dial-ups...

Froeliche Weihnacten und ein gluckliches Neues Jahr zu Alles !

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 9753653 Dec 22nd 2:50 PM
Well, the (Conn) PanAm C-Soprano arrived, and literally played 'right out of the case', just the G# was/is a little sticky - nothing that sorting spring tension won't cure (Wade- it's nothin like your G# key). It was as good as the sellers word, in fact better, had been completely overhauled and everything. Clean, very civilsed c-mouthpiece, good case, even lyre.. And natty 'Univ of Illinois' sticker on the case.

I have to say that although I'm happy working on C-Mels and alto's, overhauling a C-sop would probably be a little too fiddly for me - so what a relief. As soon as I get my fingers properly used to the (somewhat) close keys, and my embouchure is a bit firmer I'll put up a sound sample and some pics. I'm sure the sound will be more expressive with the Rico Royal 2's (just) cane reeds that I have, rather than the Plasticover 2.

And the very good news is ? No, repeat, NO, major intonation problems - that aren't just down to my relaxed embouchure. It came with a very stumpy 'no-name' ebonite C-sop mouthpiece which gave a full sound with the supplied (!) Rico Plasticover 2 Bb soprano reed. However it was a very snug fit on the new cork, so, as you know I like to try my conventional (Bb/Eb) mouthpieces on C-saxes, I thought I'd give my favourite Bb sop mpc a go.

THis is a 'slant sig' Otto Link ebonite Bb soprano mpc (40's/50's ?) that I got for literally pennies in the 60's - a mint'ier one just sold for well over $300 on ebay, whoopee.... Anyway, it doesn't really have much of a shank, so it fitted way on the neck cork a treat, and came into tune about 7-8mm from the top 'octave' cup.

And it's really near-perfect intonation, playing all three Bb's (then chromatically up to D's ) across 3 octaves is pretty well spot on, arpeggios and 2 octave chromatic runs have no glaring bad'uns, so am I just lucky ? Being that far onto the neck means that there is not a lot of the mpc's tone chamber in use, so maybe I'm lucky in that respect.

I can now see why the C-sop is so loved, it's a little darling. Like the lively difference between my Bb and C clarinets, this C-sop just sails away with a grin on it's bell....

Only thing I can fault is the very top Eb (no E or F keys), it's a bit sharp ( I should worry about that ? )- but with the palm-C also opened it gives a great high-E, bonus or what!!

And all for $600 including express international shipping - there really is a Father Christmas !!!
Oh, and for some peculiar reason the UK Customs looked the other way, so no duty/tax.... AS you may deduce, I'm more than a little happy.....

(Sigh)

WW2
User ID: 9955583 Dec 23rd 11:48 AM
Welcome to the club Alan!

I am beginning to think selmersaxman may be right and my Wurlitzer may actually have the G# key from Buescher rather than Conn. Typical of stencil saxophones to have a mixture of parts!

Oh well, maybe I'll just manufacture a key that fits like I think it should....

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 9753653 Dec 23rd 1:57 PM
Wade - It's oftem the quickest way to 'lash up' something that works, just to test the theory, and then to properly manufacture something that looks better.

What happens in reality is that the 'lash up' usually works so well that it becomes a 'permanent temporary' fixture.......

Lewis Pelham
User ID: 0770504 Dec 24th 4:26 AM
Alan.
Sorry to get philosophical, but how do you measure permanence? What time scale defines it? It could be claimed that, in the Great Scheme, everything is temporary.
Almost ashamed to admit,following your thread, that I use Plasticover reeds exclusively - nothing else gives that rasp....... :-)

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 9753653 Dec 24th 8:21 AM
I used to work with an ageing hippy database manager, who, when pressed "how long ?" for projects, would begin a long diatribe with the dreaded words " Time is a meaningless concept... "

Plasticover reed are great for 'play out of the box/case', the doublers best friend. Don't be ashamed, be proud to use them !

JC
User ID: 8987493 Dec 24th 12:38 PM
Hi Alan,
So glad you were happy with your new sax and that you posted the info about it. I’ve been wondering how it turned out.
Question, I’m not a gambler and have little knowledge other than playing. I have a Yamaha Eb Alto, YAS23, which I got used in 1985. It’s in excellent shape physically as far as I can tell. Has spent most of it’s almost 20 years with me in the case. I’m afraid of E-Bay as it seems to be a crap shoot and I never even looked at E-Bay until I found this C Melody Sax Forum so I really don't know exactly how it works.
Do you know of someone in the US who exchanges or buys saxes. I want to start with a C Soprano then get either a C-Melody or C-Tenor. Not sure as I’ve never heard a C-tenor but played a tenor in high school, which I feel more comfortable with than the Alto. I live in Southern California, if that’s important. I am on a fixed income so that’s why I’m thinking about trading this beautiful Alto instead of just buying another sax. Playability and looks are important to me, vanity perhaps. The Alto is beautiful. Want a C-Soprano that’s ready to play. I looked up my model on E-Bay and there are several, starting as low as $100. No way I would part with it for that.
Any input from anyone would be welcome. I feel as if the people on this site are friends.
Merry Christmas to all and Happy playing in the New Year.

Lewis Pelham
User ID: 0770504 Dec 24th 2:08 PM
J.C.
We all know how attached we become to a particular sax, even irratially so. For a more realistic market value of your Yam. note the price for which they are finally sold, not the opening bid, in other words put a similar horn on your "watch list". Remember also that presentation is everything on ebay. I fear that a C soprano, in good condition, will cost far more than than you could realistically expect for your Yam., why not start with a good C Melody? This will be closer in playing terms to your alto & the choice is far greater than C Sops. You should be able to buy a really good C Mel on ebay for a price similar to that which your Yam. would fetch....regards & best wishes.

WW2
User ID: 9955583 Dec 27th 9:55 AM
JC;

I just did a search on ebay for closed auctions. It looks like the typical price ends between US$625 and US$700 for a YAS23. Some went as low as 300, but most were in the 625 to 700 range. Those with starting bids in the US$850 range did not get any bids.

I am in Southern California, so email me at wwalkerjr@verizon.net and we will see if we are in the same area. If so, I can let you try my C-Melody (also known as a C-Tenor).

Wade

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 2630464 Jan 18th 5:20 PM
Well, I did promise a sound sample from my Conn PanAm C-Soprano, so, having finally found a mic that will work with the rather strange sound card on my replacement PC, here it is.....

http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/saxophones/panamcsop01.wav

Like me, short and sweet !

It's a little bit of Earle Hagen's 'Harlem Nocturne' - a.k.a. the 'Mike Hammer Theme', ranging from low C to high Bb. Using a Bb soprano Link mpc. Intonation seems OK to me, I'd dare anyone to tell it apart from a modern soprano ?

Recorded with a battered 15 year-old AKG C409 clip-on sax mic, direct into the 'mic' socket on the PC sound card. I think I need a just little EQ and reverb, must work on that, I could end up with the only PC using effects pedals....... And I'd quite forgotten how loud soprano sax bell notes come out !

SelmerSaxMan
User ID: 8917553 Jan 18th 6:34 PM
I can tell its a c soprano - it isn't quite as - hmmm lush I think as a Bb soprano, but very sweet all the same!

Your tuning seemed damn good to me - with My short lived C soprano career, I didn't quite have the right mouthpiece and the few notes that would play were not tuneable - at least not to the sax.

JC
User ID: 8987493 Jan 20th 11:50 AM
Alan, what a trip down memory lane. I was in a high school dance band and "Harlem Nocturne" was one of our most requested songs. I just played along, 4 tenor, to our 1st alto sax lead. Back then they had an all girl's band, Ina Rae Hutton (sp?) on that new thing television. Both Val, the 1st sax player and I auditioned and were accepted. We were about to sign a contract when they found out we were only 16. What a short career. Thanks for the great music.

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 2630464 Apr 13th 2:14 PM
Just thought I'd update the results of my mpc trials on the C-Sop. AS readers will know, I'd settled on a Bb vintage Otto Link 'slant sig' well on the cork.

Being an inveterate 'bargain grabber' I've since acquired a vintage Meyer Bb sop mpc, it also gives excellent intonation on the C-Sop, again well up on the cork.

As a bonus it was opeened up by Mojobari before I acquired it, absolutely mint, for the grand sum of $50 from Italy ! Bargains are out there...

The only restriction for Bb mpcs on C-Sops is the shank length, these vintage pieces have comparitively short shanks, not like the long modern shanks.

Oh, and also an old German ebonite 'Weltklang' works very well, but did need a little bit of 'shank reduction'. That one cost just $10 (with lig) and has very fine tip & rails, amazing quality.

So, in the same way that tenor mpcs will work on C-Mels, the same applies to Bb-sop mpcs on C-sops (as long as they can go on far enough to get into tune...)

Guwapo
User ID: 1808544 Apr 24th 3:16 PM
If C-soprano saxophones are that good, how come no professional musicians play them, i could think of quite a few musicians who double on C-tenor, but none at all spring to mind who play a C-soprano. Why is this do u think?

SelmerSaxMan
User ID: 9530533 Apr 25th 1:29 AM
plenty play them - not many, but there are a fair few. Rob Verdi is the first that comes to mind, but I have talked to him wuite a bit - someone more (in)famous might be named by someone else here.

Guwapo
User ID: 1808544 Apr 25th 3:14 AM
Looking on ebay it seems to me that the value of a C-soprano is appreciably more than a comparable C-tenor. Why is this when they appear to be shunned by professional musicians? What makes their value disproportionate to their popularity?

Next 20 Messages

Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 9753653	Dec 15th 1:41 PM Well, strange thing, I put in an opening bid on a C-Soprano (Conn Pan-American) - and no-one else bothered to bid...... And its been refurbed ! So thanks (and apologies to other sellers) to any of you who have given advice on the subject. Just so you can say - 'who sold you that then ?' http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3768803712 Merry Christmas to all.... I'm all spent out now, so the dollar can recover again.
David Munoz (CAN) User ID: 8604013	Dec 16th 1:25 PM Congratulations! It does indeed look quite pristine. Have a good Christmas. David
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 9753653	Dec 16th 5:01 PM Thanks David, bit un-nerving (it's spelt something like that) that absolutely no-one else bid, despite enquiries. The lady selling it normally sells violins, has good feedback, gives very lterate answers, and has an English husband - so I have no reason to doubt the instrument (at 22.5" without mouthpiece). I played a PanAm C-Mel for a while, so if the PanAm soprano is half as good I'll be well satisfied... So why then does a refurbed one sell for a lot less than a typical 'fixer' on ebay? I'll put it down to Christmas. Coincidentally I've just sold my 'spare' Pan-Am C-Melody to a lady in Dan Diego - strange old world, soprano comes from US to here, C-Mel goes back to the US ! Compliments of the season to you as well, Alan. P.S (although the C-soprano has a mouthpiece) I have a great little 'slant signature Otto Link' Bb soprano mpc that I'm hoping will be play in tune on it, it has quite a small chamber. I got it out of a 'junk mouthpiece' box in the 60's, those were the days - wish I'd bought the whole box....
mossite User ID: 0206274	Dec 19th 3:18 PM Hey Alan, Congatulations! That was almost the way i fetched mine. Except the fact that no one had bid on it. So i droped a mail after the auction closed and got it even cheaper. It was completly overhault too. Well, with the money i had saved, i had it send directly to Jason DuMars and he made a beautiful engraving on it. By the way, i love your homepage! I will drop you a mail in the next days.
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 9753653	Dec 19th 5:33 PM Anke - thanks, the homepage is growing slowly by the day - hopefully I'll get a lot of time over the Christmas Holiday to add bits - I have a boxload of mouthpieces waiting to be listed as well as other instruments.... The real homepage starts from http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm with 'Pink Panther plays Buescher C-Mel' - I just hope that there isn't too much content for non-broadband/ADSL dial-ups... Froeliche Weihnacten und ein gluckliches Neues Jahr zu Alles !
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 9753653	Dec 22nd 2:50 PM Well, the (Conn) PanAm C-Soprano arrived, and literally played 'right out of the case', just the G# was/is a little sticky - nothing that sorting spring tension won't cure (Wade- it's nothin like your G# key). It was as good as the sellers word, in fact better, had been completely overhauled and everything. Clean, very civilsed c-mouthpiece, good case, even lyre.. And natty 'Univ of Illinois' sticker on the case. I have to say that although I'm happy working on C-Mels and alto's, overhauling a C-sop would probably be a little too fiddly for me - so what a relief. As soon as I get my fingers properly used to the (somewhat) close keys, and my embouchure is a bit firmer I'll put up a sound sample and some pics. I'm sure the sound will be more expressive with the Rico Royal 2's (just) cane reeds that I have, rather than the Plasticover 2. And the very good news is ? No, repeat, NO, major intonation problems - that aren't just down to my relaxed embouchure. It came with a very stumpy 'no-name' ebonite C-sop mouthpiece which gave a full sound with the supplied (!) Rico Plasticover 2 Bb soprano reed. However it was a very snug fit on the new cork, so, as you know I like to try my conventional (Bb/Eb) mouthpieces on C-saxes, I thought I'd give my favourite Bb sop mpc a go. THis is a 'slant sig' Otto Link ebonite Bb soprano mpc (40's/50's ?) that I got for literally pennies in the 60's - a mint'ier one just sold for well over $300 on ebay, whoopee.... Anyway, it doesn't really have much of a shank, so it fitted way on the neck cork a treat, and came into tune about 7-8mm from the top 'octave' cup. And it's really near-perfect intonation, playing all three Bb's (then chromatically up to D's ) across 3 octaves is pretty well spot on, arpeggios and 2 octave chromatic runs have no glaring bad'uns, so am I just lucky ? Being that far onto the neck means that there is not a lot of the mpc's tone chamber in use, so maybe I'm lucky in that respect. I can now see why the C-sop is so loved, it's a little darling. Like the lively difference between my Bb and C clarinets, this C-sop just sails away with a grin on it's bell.... Only thing I can fault is the very top Eb (no E or F keys), it's a bit sharp ( I should worry about that ? )- but with the palm-C also opened it gives a great high-E, bonus or what!! And all for $600 including express international shipping - there really is a Father Christmas !!! Oh, and for some peculiar reason the UK Customs looked the other way, so no duty/tax.... AS you may deduce, I'm more than a little happy..... (Sigh)
WW2 User ID: 9955583	Dec 23rd 11:48 AM Welcome to the club Alan! I am beginning to think selmersaxman may be right and my Wurlitzer may actually have the G# key from Buescher rather than Conn. Typical of stencil saxophones to have a mixture of parts! Oh well, maybe I'll just manufacture a key that fits like I think it should....
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 9753653	Dec 23rd 1:57 PM Wade - It's oftem the quickest way to 'lash up' something that works, just to test the theory, and then to properly manufacture something that looks better. What happens in reality is that the 'lash up' usually works so well that it becomes a 'permanent temporary' fixture.......
Lewis Pelham User ID: 0770504	Dec 24th 4:26 AM Alan. Sorry to get philosophical, but how do you measure permanence? What time scale defines it? It could be claimed that, in the Great Scheme, everything is temporary. Almost ashamed to admit,following your thread, that I use Plasticover reeds exclusively - nothing else gives that rasp....... :-)
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 9753653	Dec 24th 8:21 AM I used to work with an ageing hippy database manager, who, when pressed "how long ?" for projects, would begin a long diatribe with the dreaded words " Time is a meaningless concept... " Plasticover reed are great for 'play out of the box/case', the doublers best friend. Don't be ashamed, be proud to use them !
JC User ID: 8987493	Dec 24th 12:38 PM Hi Alan, So glad you were happy with your new sax and that you posted the info about it. I’ve been wondering how it turned out. Question, I’m not a gambler and have little knowledge other than playing. I have a Yamaha Eb Alto, YAS23, which I got used in 1985. It’s in excellent shape physically as far as I can tell. Has spent most of it’s almost 20 years with me in the case. I’m afraid of E-Bay as it seems to be a crap shoot and I never even looked at E-Bay until I found this C Melody Sax Forum so I really don't know exactly how it works. Do you know of someone in the US who exchanges or buys saxes. I want to start with a C Soprano then get either a C-Melody or C-Tenor. Not sure as I’ve never heard a C-tenor but played a tenor in high school, which I feel more comfortable with than the Alto. I live in Southern California, if that’s important. I am on a fixed income so that’s why I’m thinking about trading this beautiful Alto instead of just buying another sax. Playability and looks are important to me, vanity perhaps. The Alto is beautiful. Want a C-Soprano that’s ready to play. I looked up my model on E-Bay and there are several, starting as low as $100. No way I would part with it for that. Any input from anyone would be welcome. I feel as if the people on this site are friends. Merry Christmas to all and Happy playing in the New Year.
Lewis Pelham User ID: 0770504	Dec 24th 2:08 PM J.C. We all know how attached we become to a particular sax, even irratially so. For a more realistic market value of your Yam. note the price for which they are finally sold, not the opening bid, in other words put a similar horn on your "watch list". Remember also that presentation is everything on ebay. I fear that a C soprano, in good condition, will cost far more than than you could realistically expect for your Yam., why not start with a good C Melody? This will be closer in playing terms to your alto & the choice is far greater than C Sops. You should be able to buy a really good C Mel on ebay for a price similar to that which your Yam. would fetch....regards & best wishes.
WW2 User ID: 9955583	Dec 27th 9:55 AM JC; I just did a search on ebay for closed auctions. It looks like the typical price ends between US$625 and US$700 for a YAS23. Some went as low as 300, but most were in the 625 to 700 range. Those with starting bids in the US$850 range did not get any bids. I am in Southern California, so email me at wwalkerjr@verizon.net and we will see if we are in the same area. If so, I can let you try my C-Melody (also known as a C-Tenor). Wade
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 2630464	Jan 18th 5:20 PM Well, I did promise a sound sample from my Conn PanAm C-Soprano, so, having finally found a mic that will work with the rather strange sound card on my replacement PC, here it is..... http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/saxophones/panamcsop01.wav Like me, short and sweet ! It's a little bit of Earle Hagen's 'Harlem Nocturne' - a.k.a. the 'Mike Hammer Theme', ranging from low C to high Bb. Using a Bb soprano Link mpc. Intonation seems OK to me, I'd dare anyone to tell it apart from a modern soprano ? Recorded with a battered 15 year-old AKG C409 clip-on sax mic, direct into the 'mic' socket on the PC sound card. I think I need a just little EQ and reverb, must work on that, I could end up with the only PC using effects pedals....... And I'd quite forgotten how loud soprano sax bell notes come out !
SelmerSaxMan User ID: 8917553	Jan 18th 6:34 PM I can tell its a c soprano - it isn't quite as - hmmm lush I think as a Bb soprano, but very sweet all the same! Your tuning seemed damn good to me - with My short lived C soprano career, I didn't quite have the right mouthpiece and the few notes that would play were not tuneable - at least not to the sax.
JC User ID: 8987493	Jan 20th 11:50 AM Alan, what a trip down memory lane. I was in a high school dance band and "Harlem Nocturne" was one of our most requested songs. I just played along, 4 tenor, to our 1st alto sax lead. Back then they had an all girl's band, Ina Rae Hutton (sp?) on that new thing television. Both Val, the 1st sax player and I auditioned and were accepted. We were about to sign a contract when they found out we were only 16. What a short career. Thanks for the great music.
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 2630464	Apr 13th 2:14 PM Just thought I'd update the results of my mpc trials on the C-Sop. AS readers will know, I'd settled on a Bb vintage Otto Link 'slant sig' well on the cork. Being an inveterate 'bargain grabber' I've since acquired a vintage Meyer Bb sop mpc, it also gives excellent intonation on the C-Sop, again well up on the cork. As a bonus it was opeened up by Mojobari before I acquired it, absolutely mint, for the grand sum of $50 from Italy ! Bargains are out there... The only restriction for Bb mpcs on C-Sops is the shank length, these vintage pieces have comparitively short shanks, not like the long modern shanks. Oh, and also an old German ebonite 'Weltklang' works very well, but did need a little bit of 'shank reduction'. That one cost just $10 (with lig) and has very fine tip & rails, amazing quality. So, in the same way that tenor mpcs will work on C-Mels, the same applies to Bb-sop mpcs on C-sops (as long as they can go on far enough to get into tune...)
Guwapo User ID: 1808544	Apr 24th 3:16 PM If C-soprano saxophones are that good, how come no professional musicians play them, i could think of quite a few musicians who double on C-tenor, but none at all spring to mind who play a C-soprano. Why is this do u think?
SelmerSaxMan User ID: 9530533	Apr 25th 1:29 AM plenty play them - not many, but there are a fair few. Rob Verdi is the first that comes to mind, but I have talked to him wuite a bit - someone more (in)famous might be named by someone else here.
Guwapo User ID: 1808544	Apr 25th 3:14 AM Looking on ebay it seems to me that the value of a C-soprano is appreciably more than a comparable C-tenor. Why is this when they appear to be shunned by professional musicians? What makes their value disproportionate to their popularity?