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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / King C-melody report

soybean
User ID: 0401124 Dec 14th 2:25 AM
(2007) I just got the King C-mel #58512. The biggest surprise is the beautiful gold/brass color of this horn. The lacquer is in amazing condition, too. The finish really looks modern. I really don't think it's been re-lacquered; the engraving is just too sharp. The other surprise is how light this C-mel is in comparison to the two other silver ones i have. A tenor or C-mel mouthpiece will fit it… definitely not an alto (the neck bore is too fat).

Playing the King: about as loud as a Buescher, more intonation problems than Buescher, altissimo register is very easy but not quite as good as Holton, amazingly light weight, strap ring is not well placed. The key-work seems just a bit more refined and ergonomic than Buescher and Holton.

This horn was re-padded years ago, but most of them are still good. I wish it had resonator pads like my Buescher, but still, it is sure nice to find a C-mel that doesn't need much. The sound may be a little more alto-like than the Buescher. I'm starting to think no C-mel sounds like a Buescher! The tone of this seems to be similar to the Holton.

These are just my first impressions after one day tooting on the King. Warning; opinions subject to change.

alan (uk)
User ID: 1731514 Dec 14th 4:39 AM
soybean - just goes to prove how differently we approach C-Mels, your comment about the King - "The sound may be a little more alto-like than the Buescher" nearly made me choke on my morning coffee...

Try a big, open, edgy tenor mouthpiece on it, and, with the bigger bell than a buescher, it can be a beast. My Martin still has 60's rivet pads, no reason to change them, so a bit of baffle in the mouthpiece makes up for lack of resonators.

Great isn't it, when they pretty-much play 'out of the box' !

Captain Beeflat 2007
User ID: 1738604 Dec 14th 8:28 AM
Could not agree more...with a "Spinal Tap" tenor mouthpiece, the King can be as hairy as you want it to be.
Oh, and the superb detail engineering...perhaps I have mentioned this before...:-)

soybean
User ID: 0401124 Dec 14th 1:12 PM
"Try a big, open, edgy tenor mouthpiece on it" Fair enough, I'll try some different pieces on it tonight. The mpc i used was a tenor Metalite which is pretty open and has a high baffle. This is the best piece with my Buescher, but maybe not the ultimate for the King. Keep in mind, my B. has been re-padded recently with reso pads and was bought off a pro player who played it in a band every week. It plays smooth as butter and loud too. The pads on the King are pretty old but it's very playable. There may be some small leaks.

Still, when i described the tone of the regal King as alto-like, maybe that was the wrong term. It actually sounds similar to the Holton. They both have strong mid and high notes. Both have excellent altissimo. Whereas the Buescher has amazing low notes with a fat & soulful midrange. The high notes are softer and not as cutting as the other two horns. Altissimo register will sound, but rather thin and weak in comparison.

ukebert
User ID: 1300074 Dec 14th 1:35 PM
Do you know you have mentioned it once or twice Bb, every time my desire for a King goes up a notch...

Captain Beeflat 2007
User ID: 1738604 Dec 14th 2:37 PM
soybean.
A Metalite is EXACTLY what I mean by "Spinal Tap"...it should peel the paper off your walls. I have a girlie No.9 and a blistering No.11 (hence Spinal Tap {"my amp goes up to 11"})
Ukebert. Yes, sorry to be a bore on the subject. In my view, in engineering terms the Conn is second best; & considering that another marque was made in a shipyard, it lags behind in 3rd place.
This, I emphasise, is only my opinion (as an engineer). Others; Alan springs to mind, could well have a different pecking order. :-)

ukebert
User ID: 1300074 Dec 14th 4:35 PM
Unfortunately I haven't had the privilege of going over any other than Buescher Conn and Aquilasax. Don't worry though, you aren't being a bore. Forsooth!

alan (uk)
User ID: 1731514 Dec 14th 4:39 PM
(best first)- Martin, King, King, King (so good I named them thrice), Buescher, Conn, Buffet (low rating only 'cos it's a bit of a wimp...), Holton, York.

I can't rank some other Euro's, like Adler, as I haven't played them. And, naturally, there can be such a variation even between horns from the same manufacturer that the 'rankings' don't really matter diddely-squat. However, I ranked them as a musician, after all, doesn't really matter a sod about the design, it's how they play/sound. 8-))

soybean
User ID: 0401124 Dec 15th 1:29 AM
Well Cap'n, this Metalite is only the girlie model. Maybe I need size 11. But first, lifting free weights with the lips is in order. I haven't had the advantage of you and Alan who've played lots of C-mels. Just these three, but the intonation seems worst on the King. If you asked me to a jam session tomorrow, I'd take the Holton. But after seeing what you two think about King, maybe I'll take this one in for an adjustment. Is it possible my King is too early (#58512) to play like yours?

Captain Beeflat 2007
User ID: 1738604 Dec 15th 5:39 AM
Soybean.
Your King is not too early. Both my Kings were earlier than yours. Also, again in my experience, the hardness of the reed has a greater effect on the chops than the tip opening. Half a size on reeds can be far more difficult to control than another 0.020" on tip opening.
Alan.
So, "it doesn't matter a sod about the the design...it's how they play/sound". Dear, oh dear. I do hope that this comment is tongue in cheek.
A/ How they play is down to the engineering; &
B/ How they sound is down to the player.
Just for the record, it is very bad practice to attach to a scantling, items which are heavier than the scantling itself.....does cast tone holes & thin gauge body structure spring to mind? :-))

soybean User ID: 0401124	Dec 14th 2:25 AM (2007) I just got the King C-mel #58512. The biggest surprise is the beautiful gold/brass color of this horn. The lacquer is in amazing condition, too. The finish really looks modern. I really don't think it's been re-lacquered; the engraving is just too sharp. The other surprise is how light this C-mel is in comparison to the two other silver ones i have. A tenor or C-mel mouthpiece will fit it… definitely not an alto (the neck bore is too fat). Playing the King: about as loud as a Buescher, more intonation problems than Buescher, altissimo register is very easy but not quite as good as Holton, amazingly light weight, strap ring is not well placed. The key-work seems just a bit more refined and ergonomic than Buescher and Holton. This horn was re-padded years ago, but most of them are still good. I wish it had resonator pads like my Buescher, but still, it is sure nice to find a C-mel that doesn't need much. The sound may be a little more alto-like than the Buescher. I'm starting to think no C-mel sounds like a Buescher! The tone of this seems to be similar to the Holton. These are just my first impressions after one day tooting on the King. Warning; opinions subject to change.
alan (uk) User ID: 1731514	Dec 14th 4:39 AM soybean - just goes to prove how differently we approach C-Mels, your comment about the King - "The sound may be a little more alto-like than the Buescher" nearly made me choke on my morning coffee... Try a big, open, edgy tenor mouthpiece on it, and, with the bigger bell than a buescher, it can be a beast. My Martin still has 60's rivet pads, no reason to change them, so a bit of baffle in the mouthpiece makes up for lack of resonators. Great isn't it, when they pretty-much play 'out of the box' !
Captain Beeflat 2007 User ID: 1738604	Dec 14th 8:28 AM Could not agree more...with a "Spinal Tap" tenor mouthpiece, the King can be as hairy as you want it to be. Oh, and the superb detail engineering...perhaps I have mentioned this before...:-)
soybean User ID: 0401124	Dec 14th 1:12 PM "Try a big, open, edgy tenor mouthpiece on it" Fair enough, I'll try some different pieces on it tonight. The mpc i used was a tenor Metalite which is pretty open and has a high baffle. This is the best piece with my Buescher, but maybe not the ultimate for the King. Keep in mind, my B. has been re-padded recently with reso pads and was bought off a pro player who played it in a band every week. It plays smooth as butter and loud too. The pads on the King are pretty old but it's very playable. There may be some small leaks. Still, when i described the tone of the regal King as alto-like, maybe that was the wrong term. It actually sounds similar to the Holton. They both have strong mid and high notes. Both have excellent altissimo. Whereas the Buescher has amazing low notes with a fat & soulful midrange. The high notes are softer and not as cutting as the other two horns. Altissimo register will sound, but rather thin and weak in comparison.
ukebert User ID: 1300074	Dec 14th 1:35 PM Do you know you have mentioned it once or twice Bb, every time my desire for a King goes up a notch...
Captain Beeflat 2007 User ID: 1738604	Dec 14th 2:37 PM soybean. A Metalite is EXACTLY what I mean by "Spinal Tap"...it should peel the paper off your walls. I have a girlie No.9 and a blistering No.11 (hence Spinal Tap {"my amp goes up to 11"}) Ukebert. Yes, sorry to be a bore on the subject. In my view, in engineering terms the Conn is second best; & considering that another marque was made in a shipyard, it lags behind in 3rd place. This, I emphasise, is only my opinion (as an engineer). Others; Alan springs to mind, could well have a different pecking order. :-)
ukebert User ID: 1300074	Dec 14th 4:35 PM Unfortunately I haven't had the privilege of going over any other than Buescher Conn and Aquilasax. Don't worry though, you aren't being a bore. Forsooth!
alan (uk) User ID: 1731514	Dec 14th 4:39 PM (best first)- Martin, King, King, King (so good I named them thrice), Buescher, Conn, Buffet (low rating only 'cos it's a bit of a wimp...), Holton, York. I can't rank some other Euro's, like Adler, as I haven't played them. And, naturally, there can be such a variation even between horns from the same manufacturer that the 'rankings' don't really matter diddely-squat. However, I ranked them as a musician, after all, doesn't really matter a sod about the design, it's how they play/sound. 8-))
soybean User ID: 0401124	Dec 15th 1:29 AM Well Cap'n, this Metalite is only the girlie model. Maybe I need size 11. But first, lifting free weights with the lips is in order. I haven't had the advantage of you and Alan who've played lots of C-mels. Just these three, but the intonation seems worst on the King. If you asked me to a jam session tomorrow, I'd take the Holton. But after seeing what you two think about King, maybe I'll take this one in for an adjustment. Is it possible my King is too early (#58512) to play like yours?
Captain Beeflat 2007 User ID: 1738604	Dec 15th 5:39 AM Soybean. Your King is not too early. Both my Kings were earlier than yours. Also, again in my experience, the hardness of the reed has a greater effect on the chops than the tip opening. Half a size on reeds can be far more difficult to control than another 0.020" on tip opening. Alan. So, "it doesn't matter a sod about the the design...it's how they play/sound". Dear, oh dear. I do hope that this comment is tongue in cheek. A/ How they play is down to the engineering; & B/ How they sound is down to the player. Just for the record, it is very bad practice to attach to a scantling, items which are heavier than the scantling itself.....does cast tone holes & thin gauge body structure spring to mind? :-))