C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / Mystery Engraving

Next 20 Messages

Paul (UK)
User ID: 0651814 Dec 1st 8:55 AM
The following Conn has "Exchanged for new Buescher 8064" stamped on the bell. This is the second Conn c mel I have seen on ebay with this inscription, or the same one relisted. Can anyone throw any light on this, even if it was exchanged for a new Buescher, or vice versa, what would be the point/benefit of stamping the sax.

Item http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1922-Conn-C-Melody-Saxophone-w-case_W0QQitemZ120057539404QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10184QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Sam
User ID: 0331974 Dec 1st 9:25 AM
Now that is curious.... Did the other conn with the inscription have the same number, 8064? It certainly doesn't seem to make sense.
The music shop that hypothetically exchanged it for a new Buescher wouldn't gain anything from stamping it, only lower it's value, I would think, although I don't really know.
But what would it do to the value today? Would it be considered a curiosity, or what?

Alan(UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 1st 9:48 AM
I always assumed it had more to do with factory exchanges - a 'special deal' on (e.g.) new Bueschers in exchange for a cruddy old C-Mel......(like a Conn, very apt :-))

Then the 'stamped' ones probably found their way back into the economy via Buescher factory employees ? Slightly 'black market' ?

Wade, you were around at the time, any memories ?

Paul (UK)
User ID: 0651814 Dec 1st 4:53 PM
It would be interesting to know the comparative prices of Conns and Bueschers at the time, I'm presuming that the 8064 is not a serial number as this would place the Beuscher, which was exchanged for the Conn , or is it the other way around, at approx 1906/7 whereas the Conn is early 1920's. Oh I'm just getting confused.

Sam, unfortunatley I ca'nt recall whether the other Conn had 8064, although the rest of the stamp/engraving was the same.

Alan(UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 1st 11:10 PM
I only have the prices for the Wurlitzer stencils on my 'finishes page - interestingly it shows the alto as a Conn stencil and the C-mel as either Martin or Buescher.

I'll have a dig thro' the archives once the weekends sporting activities (why is football played in the winter ?) have ceased....

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 2nd 6:13 AM
Anericans are welcome to join in these topics, after all, it's your saxophones we're talking about.............

Captain Muggles
User ID: 9725373 Dec 2nd 11:25 AM
That reminds me.....Did the English ever manufacture (In England) a saxophone?

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 2nd 2:29 PM
Yes.

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 2nd 2:44 PM
'Course, I could be really cynical and ask if any 'natural' Americans have ever manufactured a saxophone ? Seems to me like all the big music companies were started off by European immigrants, bringing their skills with them.

Capn. M - The reason I mentioned that "Anericans are welcome to join in these topics...", is because, apart from Jungle Jim (wherever he comes from), all the recent postings seem to be from outside the US.......... Wake up at the back !!

So, are you an Anerican ?

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 2nd 2:59 PM
By the way Capn M (to totally go off topic) - have a look at my Martin tenor that'll be going to a new home in a few days - currently 40 cents off a 'G'..... Ebay Item 250053896501

Wouldn't it kill you (does me..) to part with a sax like that ? Sad times. But necessary.

ConnmanKenUK
User ID: 1689844 Dec 2nd 3:56 PM
Alan, I went to MIR in Halesowen to try an Otto Link Tone Edge mp and there were 2 Martins in the show case just like yours, so I tried on of those as well. Very pleasant to handle and sounded good.

Ken UK
User ID: 1689844 Dec 2nd 4:22 PM
Paul, I'm just imagining a Buescher dealer's shop window in the 1920's with that poor Conn C Melody on show. Could have happened?

Steve
User ID: 9774843 Dec 3rd 11:19 PM
Could it have been a joke from a disgruntled Conn customer?

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 4th 4:47 AM
No, I seriously (me, serious ?) believe it was some sort of accountancy thing, to identify 'swapped saxes'. Labels may fall off, stamping is forever - probably seemed like a good idea at the time....

Jungle Jim
User ID: 3020234 Dec 4th 8:30 AM
Alan....Your explanation seems very probable!

WW2
User ID: 1585334 Dec 4th 5:19 PM
I am clueless as to why this was done. I wasn't around back then!

Sad times indeed! I have recently parted with both my C-Soprano and my BBb Bass Sax. I already miss them, but they went to good homes!

Paul (UK)
User ID: 9719083 Dec 5th 10:31 AM
Alan - approval from Jungle Jim you must be correct.

Jungle Jim
User ID: 9182423 Dec 5th 12:51 PM
Alan...I too am curious about the English ever manufaturing a saxophone. I am totally serious and not being sarcastic. I would like to know what the name of the manufacturer(s) (is/were). In all honesty, if they did, it was probably of fine quality. Are there any of them still around?

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 5th 1:32 PM
JJ - apart from the smaller UK manufacturers, the one that springs to mind is Boosey & Hawkes (or the two seperate halves before they amalgamated). They had a huge manufacturing facility at Edgeware, Middlesex (or 'MX' in Murkin).

I know they built Buffet clarinets & flutes at Edgeware, and they had other products with names like Rudall Carte & Besson, but more clari's and flutes than saxes.. The one sax that I think was built in great quantities in the UK was The B&H Edgeware (or 'Fogware' as the engraving is often misread.)

I am aware that Keilwerth (and maybe Kohlert) also produced some Edgeware's in Germany, but they have differences. So I have to go with the B&H Edgeware as the most prolific UK sax - although I keep comig across bits like this Hawkes sax -

http://www.sax.co.uk/Hawkessop.htm

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 5th 1:41 PM
In case anyone goes searching, the name of the sax is actually 'Edgware' - without the middle 'e'.

I'm easily confused, the factory was in Edgeware - with the middle 'e'.......

Next 20 Messages

Paul (UK) User ID: 0651814	Dec 1st 8:55 AM The following Conn has "Exchanged for new Buescher 8064" stamped on the bell. This is the second Conn c mel I have seen on ebay with this inscription, or the same one relisted. Can anyone throw any light on this, even if it was exchanged for a new Buescher, or vice versa, what would be the point/benefit of stamping the sax. Item http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1922-Conn-C-Melody-Saxophone-w-case_W0QQitemZ120057539404QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10184QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Sam User ID: 0331974	Dec 1st 9:25 AM Now that is curious.... Did the other conn with the inscription have the same number, 8064? It certainly doesn't seem to make sense. The music shop that hypothetically exchanged it for a new Buescher wouldn't gain anything from stamping it, only lower it's value, I would think, although I don't really know. But what would it do to the value today? Would it be considered a curiosity, or what?
Alan(UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 1st 9:48 AM I always assumed it had more to do with factory exchanges - a 'special deal' on (e.g.) new Bueschers in exchange for a cruddy old C-Mel......(like a Conn, very apt :-)) Then the 'stamped' ones probably found their way back into the economy via Buescher factory employees ? Slightly 'black market' ? Wade, you were around at the time, any memories ?
Paul (UK) User ID: 0651814	Dec 1st 4:53 PM It would be interesting to know the comparative prices of Conns and Bueschers at the time, I'm presuming that the 8064 is not a serial number as this would place the Beuscher, which was exchanged for the Conn , or is it the other way around, at approx 1906/7 whereas the Conn is early 1920's. Oh I'm just getting confused. Sam, unfortunatley I ca'nt recall whether the other Conn had 8064, although the rest of the stamp/engraving was the same.
Alan(UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 1st 11:10 PM I only have the prices for the Wurlitzer stencils on my 'finishes page - interestingly it shows the alto as a Conn stencil and the C-mel as either Martin or Buescher. I'll have a dig thro' the archives once the weekends sporting activities (why is football played in the winter ?) have ceased....
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 2nd 6:13 AM Anericans are welcome to join in these topics, after all, it's your saxophones we're talking about.............
Captain Muggles User ID: 9725373	Dec 2nd 11:25 AM That reminds me.....Did the English ever manufacture (In England) a saxophone?
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 2nd 2:29 PM Yes.
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 2nd 2:44 PM 'Course, I could be really cynical and ask if any 'natural' Americans have ever manufactured a saxophone ? Seems to me like all the big music companies were started off by European immigrants, bringing their skills with them. Capn. M - The reason I mentioned that "Anericans are welcome to join in these topics...", is because, apart from Jungle Jim (wherever he comes from), all the recent postings seem to be from outside the US.......... Wake up at the back !! So, are you an Anerican ?
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 2nd 2:59 PM By the way Capn M (to totally go off topic) - have a look at my Martin tenor that'll be going to a new home in a few days - currently 40 cents off a 'G'..... Ebay Item 250053896501 Wouldn't it kill you (does me..) to part with a sax like that ? Sad times. But necessary.
ConnmanKenUK User ID: 1689844	Dec 2nd 3:56 PM Alan, I went to MIR in Halesowen to try an Otto Link Tone Edge mp and there were 2 Martins in the show case just like yours, so I tried on of those as well. Very pleasant to handle and sounded good.
Ken UK User ID: 1689844	Dec 2nd 4:22 PM Paul, I'm just imagining a Buescher dealer's shop window in the 1920's with that poor Conn C Melody on show. Could have happened?
Steve User ID: 9774843	Dec 3rd 11:19 PM Could it have been a joke from a disgruntled Conn customer?
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 4th 4:47 AM No, I seriously (me, serious ?) believe it was some sort of accountancy thing, to identify 'swapped saxes'. Labels may fall off, stamping is forever - probably seemed like a good idea at the time....
Jungle Jim User ID: 3020234	Dec 4th 8:30 AM Alan....Your explanation seems very probable!
WW2 User ID: 1585334	Dec 4th 5:19 PM I am clueless as to why this was done. I wasn't around back then! Sad times indeed! I have recently parted with both my C-Soprano and my BBb Bass Sax. I already miss them, but they went to good homes!
Paul (UK) User ID: 9719083	Dec 5th 10:31 AM Alan - approval from Jungle Jim you must be correct.
Jungle Jim User ID: 9182423	Dec 5th 12:51 PM Alan...I too am curious about the English ever manufaturing a saxophone. I am totally serious and not being sarcastic. I would like to know what the name of the manufacturer(s) (is/were). In all honesty, if they did, it was probably of fine quality. Are there any of them still around?
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 5th 1:32 PM JJ - apart from the smaller UK manufacturers, the one that springs to mind is Boosey & Hawkes (or the two seperate halves before they amalgamated). They had a huge manufacturing facility at Edgeware, Middlesex (or 'MX' in Murkin). I know they built Buffet clarinets & flutes at Edgeware, and they had other products with names like Rudall Carte & Besson, but more clari's and flutes than saxes.. The one sax that I think was built in great quantities in the UK was The B&H Edgeware (or 'Fogware' as the engraving is often misread.) I am aware that Keilwerth (and maybe Kohlert) also produced some Edgeware's in Germany, but they have differences. So I have to go with the B&H Edgeware as the most prolific UK sax - although I keep comig across bits like this Hawkes sax - http://www.sax.co.uk/Hawkessop.htm
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 5th 1:41 PM In case anyone goes searching, the name of the sax is actually 'Edgware' - without the middle 'e'. I'm easily confused, the factory was in Edgeware - with the middle 'e'.......