C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / Couturier C melody

Kyle Curry
User ID: 1578334 Nov 12th 1:18 PM
Hi. Several years ago I bought a C-melody sax from a guy who found it at a garage sale and was on the verge of turning it into a lamp. After some extensive rehabbing it's playable but has some intonation problems on several of the notes.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone has heard of this model? On the front it says "Made by Couturier, LaPorte, IND". Every heard of this?

Jeff Frazier
User ID: 8938823 Nov 12th 1:33 PM
Really need some pics to identify it

HIS,

Doc
www.JandJWoodwinds.com

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Nov 12th 5:02 PM
Does it also say "Lyon & Healy" in flowing engraving, on it ?

Not guaranteed, but with "LaPorte, IND", it's liable to be one of L&H's own saxophones, not the later stencils made for them.

bruce bailey
User ID: 9690803 Nov 13th 1:22 AM
I think Courturier made horns for various brands (I had a Holton from them) but after about 1928 they were owned by L&H. At that time the serial numbers were about 200,000 or more.

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Nov 13th 8:05 AM
Ah, but was Couturier a manufacturer, or a name passed around, or both ? I was under the impression that typically the L&H 'own' models have a strange mix of the Martin body (with bevelled tone-holes), but with the Conn 'mercedes' low C guard, and either a Martin style neck (straight brace) or a Conn style neck (curved brace) - and I've seen a few of those mixes with Couturier on them (and to confuse things, also one Gretsch stencil).

I suspect it often wasn't as clear-cut as we think, with manufacturers doing work for each other, and/or trading parts, just trying to keep busy and sell at the best price.

With the popularity of C-Mels in the 20's, it's a shame there weren't a few academic theses on the subject, including all the companies, stencils etc., then we really might know some more info (or maybe there were, but they're long gone ?)

bruce bailey
User ID: 9690803 Nov 14th 1:23 AM
My opinion is that the Courturier was a company in LaPorte Indiana which is between Elkhart and Chicago. Whether they built any with their name on it (other than the L&H models) I don't know. The later ones (including the Holton I had) were made with the L shaped G# key which opens the low C# at the same time. Nice but if you want to use it with the articulated G# function, the low D is blindingly sharp. If anyone is interested, I have two L&H altos like this, one silver plated and the other gold plated that I just don't have time to repad.

Kyle Curry
User ID: 1578334 Jan 8th 4:51 PM
Thanks for all the info...seems like it's hard to nail down this particular brand. I don't see "Lyon and Healy" anywhere on in, just the "Made by Couturier, LaPorte, IND" as I described.

The serial number is in the 9000 range, with a "C" above it and an "L" below it. Would that give some clue to the age of this instrument? I bought it without a case or any documentation and I'm curious as to how old it might be.

alan (uk)
User ID: 1731514 Jan 8th 5:42 PM
It'll undoubtedly be manufactured in the 20's,

Kyle Curry
User ID: 1578334 Jan 8th 11:11 PM
One other observation about my sax...it has bevelled tone holes. Don't know if that helps with identifying it...

bruce bailey 2008
User ID: 9690803 Jan 9th 12:19 AM
Courturier was a seperate company building saxes prior to L&H buying them around 1928 SO, you will have Courturier horns, L&H Courturier models and later ones were just L&H. I think they disappeared after about 1931. Very Martin like but the bore is quite different.

chad
User ID: 8910463 Jan 30th 10:54 AM
i have the same sax and i'm wondering about it also, cant seem to find any info on it. would it be worth anything? mine is silver plated

alan (uk) '08
User ID: 1731514 Jan 30th 1:19 PM
chad (hello..) the info is above your posting, look up. None have sold on ebay recently, so the value is just a general guesstimate - but only really worth a couple of hundred dollars, unless recently overhauled.

Here are some pics, although since I wrote this page more info has come up on this forum (above).

http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/gallery/lyonhealy-own-couturier-cmel.htm

Kyle Curry User ID: 1578334	Nov 12th 1:18 PM Hi. Several years ago I bought a C-melody sax from a guy who found it at a garage sale and was on the verge of turning it into a lamp. After some extensive rehabbing it's playable but has some intonation problems on several of the notes. Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone has heard of this model? On the front it says "Made by Couturier, LaPorte, IND". Every heard of this?
Jeff Frazier User ID: 8938823	Nov 12th 1:33 PM Really need some pics to identify it HIS, Doc www.JandJWoodwinds.com
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Nov 12th 5:02 PM Does it also say "Lyon & Healy" in flowing engraving, on it ? Not guaranteed, but with "LaPorte, IND", it's liable to be one of L&H's own saxophones, not the later stencils made for them.
bruce bailey User ID: 9690803	Nov 13th 1:22 AM I think Courturier made horns for various brands (I had a Holton from them) but after about 1928 they were owned by L&H. At that time the serial numbers were about 200,000 or more.
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Nov 13th 8:05 AM Ah, but was Couturier a manufacturer, or a name passed around, or both ? I was under the impression that typically the L&H 'own' models have a strange mix of the Martin body (with bevelled tone-holes), but with the Conn 'mercedes' low C guard, and either a Martin style neck (straight brace) or a Conn style neck (curved brace) - and I've seen a few of those mixes with Couturier on them (and to confuse things, also one Gretsch stencil). I suspect it often wasn't as clear-cut as we think, with manufacturers doing work for each other, and/or trading parts, just trying to keep busy and sell at the best price. With the popularity of C-Mels in the 20's, it's a shame there weren't a few academic theses on the subject, including all the companies, stencils etc., then we really might know some more info (or maybe there were, but they're long gone ?)
bruce bailey User ID: 9690803	Nov 14th 1:23 AM My opinion is that the Courturier was a company in LaPorte Indiana which is between Elkhart and Chicago. Whether they built any with their name on it (other than the L&H models) I don't know. The later ones (including the Holton I had) were made with the L shaped G# key which opens the low C# at the same time. Nice but if you want to use it with the articulated G# function, the low D is blindingly sharp. If anyone is interested, I have two L&H altos like this, one silver plated and the other gold plated that I just don't have time to repad.
Kyle Curry User ID: 1578334	Jan 8th 4:51 PM Thanks for all the info...seems like it's hard to nail down this particular brand. I don't see "Lyon and Healy" anywhere on in, just the "Made by Couturier, LaPorte, IND" as I described. The serial number is in the 9000 range, with a "C" above it and an "L" below it. Would that give some clue to the age of this instrument? I bought it without a case or any documentation and I'm curious as to how old it might be.
alan (uk) User ID: 1731514	Jan 8th 5:42 PM It'll undoubtedly be manufactured in the 20's,
Kyle Curry User ID: 1578334	Jan 8th 11:11 PM One other observation about my sax...it has bevelled tone holes. Don't know if that helps with identifying it...
bruce bailey 2008 User ID: 9690803	Jan 9th 12:19 AM Courturier was a seperate company building saxes prior to L&H buying them around 1928 SO, you will have Courturier horns, L&H Courturier models and later ones were just L&H. I think they disappeared after about 1931. Very Martin like but the bore is quite different.
chad User ID: 8910463	Jan 30th 10:54 AM i have the same sax and i'm wondering about it also, cant seem to find any info on it. would it be worth anything? mine is silver plated
alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1731514	Jan 30th 1:19 PM chad (hello..) the info is above your posting, look up. None have sold on ebay recently, so the value is just a general guesstimate - but only really worth a couple of hundred dollars, unless recently overhauled. Here are some pics, although since I wrote this page more info has come up on this forum (above). http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/gallery/lyonhealy-own-couturier-cmel.htm