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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / Wurlitzer serial numbers

Next 20 Messages

Blosax
User ID: 9544623 Mar 15th 9:43 AM
I have a Wurlitzer C Melody SN 142028. Where can I find the manufacturer and the date of manufacture?

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Mar 15th 6:48 PM
Blosax - stencils don't have the same range of serial numbers as the 'manufacturers own', and specific stencil records don't seem to exist - the major stencil production time was early/mid 20's, when the C-Mel boom was at it's height.

Could be a Martin (bevelled tone holes), Conn ('mercedes' C guard) or Buescher (scalloped fin under the bow and/or under the neck). My money'd be on a Martin.

A good starting point, with lots of pics, and links to other pages is my -

http://cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/serial-numbers.htm

ESB
User ID: 1704034 Mar 17th 6:17 AM
Most Wurlitzers are Martin stencils. The easiest way to tell is to look at the neck; martins (and their stencils) have a support rod on the underside of the neck while bueschers have the scalloped fin. Conns usually have straight necks.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 17th 7:02 AM
ESB.
I was not aware that Conn stencils had straight necks. I have never seen one, and assumed that the straight neck was the preserve of the factory Conns.

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 17th 7:40 AM
True, and I've a feeling that some of the c/n had the bar support. Look for the toneholes, the bow guard and the low c guard.

ESB
User ID: 1704034 Mar 17th 7:50 AM
I just sold a Conn stencil that had a straight neck...could have been after factory. The horn was in dismal "please make me a lamp" condition. It is hard to say right now with the fact that nobody knows what a c mel is anyways...

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 17th 8:28 AM
Ukebert. Yes, the curved neck Conns (pre 1921?) had a lovely curved seperate neck strut/tie, whereas the Martin's was straight...like a displaced tangent.

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 17th 9:47 AM
See here:
http://cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/gallery/conn-cneck.htm

I still can't get over that Adler, I'm going to keep my eye out for one of them.

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Mar 17th 11:06 AM
It's not unusual for either Martin or Buescher stencils to have no neck reinforcers, whereas they almost always have the fin under the bow, plain fin for Martin and scalloped fin for Buescher.

Almost every Martin stencil I've seen (and quite a few have assed thro' my hands...) is easily identifiable because of the bevelled tone holes.

I did see a Conn stencil (PanAm) with a straight microtuner neck on ebay once - but when quizzed, the seller said he'd sold a Conn (by mistake) with the PanAm curved neck, they'd got mixed up in the 'shop'....... Well, an honest answer...

ESB - hopefully forums like this, and websites like my cmelodysax.co.uk are educating the world about C-Mels. Care to really introduce yourself ?

Owen - what Adler ? The one on my website ?

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 17th 12:17 PM
Yep, the one with the extra keys.

ESB
User ID: 8785553 Mar 19th 12:02 PM
Alan;

Well, I am a semi pro horn player with an unhealthy penchant for vintage and odd-model horns. I live on the east coast of the states and build houses and do finish carpentry for a living. Half of my basement is for carpentry; half for messing around with horns. My big project right now is a 5 digit Mark VI in sad, sad, sad condition, and learning how to turn my own mouthpieces.I have a closet full of horns and a basement full of parts.

Hope that covers it.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 19th 12:09 PM
ESB.
WE all understand..in fact it all sounds quite normal.
Your "unhealthy penchant" could be far worse; it could be for old women or Catholic priests. :-))

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 19th 12:30 PM
Very true, Bb, you could have a penchant for something much more expensive, like bungee jumping, or tightrope walking, or, like me, sailing.

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Mar 19th 1:03 PM
ESB - welcome, how I wish all UK houses had basements, sometimes I feel like excavating one, as all the 'above ground' space is full of instruments and other good ideas (at the time....).

As a carpenter, you may be interested on my latest invention, the 'mouthpiece pipe rack'. Have a look on my new Blog at

http://cmelodysax.blogspot.com/

- all the rest of you are equally welcome as well, of course. And clicking on my profile (bottom of the page), and then on the link in the profile, will cunningly take you to the 'about me' on the website. How you get back after all that travel is entirely up to you......

ukebert - today would be a good day for sailing in Weymouth, the wind-surfers are overtaking the jet-ski's ! If only it wasn't hail-storming as well....... I know what you mean about sailing, some friends who do it once said they often consider the less painful option of just throwing money straight into the harbour - then retiring to the nearest warm and dry pub with what cash is left!

ESB
User ID: 8785553 Mar 19th 2:33 PM
Nice use of existing tools.

When I was gigging more often I took a bank deposit bag (leather zip bag...about 3x bigger than a mic bag), lined it with foam that was molded to my different pieces and used that to carry the mouthpieces around. I don't like thinking of having 4 pieces clinking together in each case...gotta be prepared for anything.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 19th 3:33 PM
ESB - same sort of thing, when I flew a lot, one very nice airline gave me a first class pocket 'toiletries' kit (I was in 'cattle' class, but the stewardesses were friendly) in a great little soft case - zip opening on three sides and lots of internal pockets...

Out went the soaps etc., and in went all my mouthpieces, ligs, essential tools/spares and reed clips. All fitted into a jacket pocket, never left my side, nothing ever got lost, but caused some fun with airport security scanners. Still have it to this day - hmmmm, that'd make another good picture on the blog. Thanks !

Horns can be replaced, but the contents of that little bag were my life......

Think we should get back to Wurlitzer serial numbers, but sadly there aren't any.....

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 19th 4:02 PM
Talking about going off topic, has anyone noticed the frequency of a newcomer opening a topic with a request...and that initial post is the last we hear of them. In this case, you Alan, answered his request pretty comprehensively but you would think that they would hang about for a while in case of developments. Surely we are not that scary.

Alan. You tell us that you fitted all your mouthpieces, ligs, tools and spares into a toiletry container. That must have been a few years ago; nowadays you would need a freight container. :-))

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 19th 4:17 PM
Yeah, I would have been out this weekend, but as in Mike Green's classic books, it takes me all day to put in a reef. Besides, my boat doesn't have any reef points, just a smaller sail, which would still be too large. One of my favourite sailing quotes is
Boat (bôt): A hole in the water, surrounded by wood into which one pours money.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 19th 5:25 PM
I'll drink to that !

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 19th 5:53 PM
Lewis - it's the old story. When playing pro 'for real' I only had one of each sax, sop/alto/tenor and flute, they never let me down, with a couple of mouthpiece options for each (max six in total).

I carried one reed clip and one box of reeds for each sax, mini-pliers, instrument screwdriver, odd bits of cork, elastic bands (spare springs are for wimps), string, electrical tape and sleeving, cable ties (the old metal type), sandpaper, some vaseline and a small tube of glue.... Oh, and a spare sling. Sad thing is, I can't remember ever using oil, must have, or did I ?

That's all I survived on for almost a decade, still have most of the bits....... I think the alto and tenor (neither were top-notch saxes) each went into the 'shop' once during that time, but not the sop or flute. I remember the Boosey & Hawkes repairer saying about the alto "You've been to Germany, haven't you, they all come back like this....."

Now, safely at home, and playing comparatively diddely-squat, I have backups for the backup-backup..... And they're all unused.. :-(( Tell me about it ! But those were the old days, we never worried about anything, and mostly got away with it....... (forgot the clari, but then most of the time it was unused..)

Next 20 Messages

Blosax User ID: 9544623	Mar 15th 9:43 AM I have a Wurlitzer C Melody SN 142028. Where can I find the manufacturer and the date of manufacture?
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Mar 15th 6:48 PM Blosax - stencils don't have the same range of serial numbers as the 'manufacturers own', and specific stencil records don't seem to exist - the major stencil production time was early/mid 20's, when the C-Mel boom was at it's height. Could be a Martin (bevelled tone holes), Conn ('mercedes' C guard) or Buescher (scalloped fin under the bow and/or under the neck). My money'd be on a Martin. A good starting point, with lots of pics, and links to other pages is my - http://cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/serial-numbers.htm
ESB User ID: 1704034	Mar 17th 6:17 AM Most Wurlitzers are Martin stencils. The easiest way to tell is to look at the neck; martins (and their stencils) have a support rod on the underside of the neck while bueschers have the scalloped fin. Conns usually have straight necks.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 17th 7:02 AM ESB. I was not aware that Conn stencils had straight necks. I have never seen one, and assumed that the straight neck was the preserve of the factory Conns.
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 17th 7:40 AM True, and I've a feeling that some of the c/n had the bar support. Look for the toneholes, the bow guard and the low c guard.
ESB User ID: 1704034	Mar 17th 7:50 AM I just sold a Conn stencil that had a straight neck...could have been after factory. The horn was in dismal "please make me a lamp" condition. It is hard to say right now with the fact that nobody knows what a c mel is anyways...
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 17th 8:28 AM Ukebert. Yes, the curved neck Conns (pre 1921?) had a lovely curved seperate neck strut/tie, whereas the Martin's was straight...like a displaced tangent.
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 17th 9:47 AM See here: http://cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/gallery/conn-cneck.htm I still can't get over that Adler, I'm going to keep my eye out for one of them.
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Mar 17th 11:06 AM It's not unusual for either Martin or Buescher stencils to have no neck reinforcers, whereas they almost always have the fin under the bow, plain fin for Martin and scalloped fin for Buescher. Almost every Martin stencil I've seen (and quite a few have assed thro' my hands...) is easily identifiable because of the bevelled tone holes. I did see a Conn stencil (PanAm) with a straight microtuner neck on ebay once - but when quizzed, the seller said he'd sold a Conn (by mistake) with the PanAm curved neck, they'd got mixed up in the 'shop'....... Well, an honest answer... ESB - hopefully forums like this, and websites like my cmelodysax.co.uk are educating the world about C-Mels. Care to really introduce yourself ? Owen - what Adler ? The one on my website ?
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 17th 12:17 PM Yep, the one with the extra keys.
ESB User ID: 8785553	Mar 19th 12:02 PM Alan; Well, I am a semi pro horn player with an unhealthy penchant for vintage and odd-model horns. I live on the east coast of the states and build houses and do finish carpentry for a living. Half of my basement is for carpentry; half for messing around with horns. My big project right now is a 5 digit Mark VI in sad, sad, sad condition, and learning how to turn my own mouthpieces.I have a closet full of horns and a basement full of parts. Hope that covers it.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 19th 12:09 PM ESB. WE all understand..in fact it all sounds quite normal. Your "unhealthy penchant" could be far worse; it could be for old women or Catholic priests. :-))
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 19th 12:30 PM Very true, Bb, you could have a penchant for something much more expensive, like bungee jumping, or tightrope walking, or, like me, sailing.
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Mar 19th 1:03 PM ESB - welcome, how I wish all UK houses had basements, sometimes I feel like excavating one, as all the 'above ground' space is full of instruments and other good ideas (at the time....). As a carpenter, you may be interested on my latest invention, the 'mouthpiece pipe rack'. Have a look on my new Blog at http://cmelodysax.blogspot.com/ - all the rest of you are equally welcome as well, of course. And clicking on my profile (bottom of the page), and then on the link in the profile, will cunningly take you to the 'about me' on the website. How you get back after all that travel is entirely up to you...... ukebert - today would be a good day for sailing in Weymouth, the wind-surfers are overtaking the jet-ski's ! If only it wasn't hail-storming as well....... I know what you mean about sailing, some friends who do it once said they often consider the less painful option of just throwing money straight into the harbour - then retiring to the nearest warm and dry pub with what cash is left!
ESB User ID: 8785553	Mar 19th 2:33 PM Nice use of existing tools. When I was gigging more often I took a bank deposit bag (leather zip bag...about 3x bigger than a mic bag), lined it with foam that was molded to my different pieces and used that to carry the mouthpieces around. I don't like thinking of having 4 pieces clinking together in each case...gotta be prepared for anything.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 19th 3:33 PM ESB - same sort of thing, when I flew a lot, one very nice airline gave me a first class pocket 'toiletries' kit (I was in 'cattle' class, but the stewardesses were friendly) in a great little soft case - zip opening on three sides and lots of internal pockets... Out went the soaps etc., and in went all my mouthpieces, ligs, essential tools/spares and reed clips. All fitted into a jacket pocket, never left my side, nothing ever got lost, but caused some fun with airport security scanners. Still have it to this day - hmmmm, that'd make another good picture on the blog. Thanks ! Horns can be replaced, but the contents of that little bag were my life...... Think we should get back to Wurlitzer serial numbers, but sadly there aren't any.....
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 19th 4:02 PM Talking about going off topic, has anyone noticed the frequency of a newcomer opening a topic with a request...and that initial post is the last we hear of them. In this case, you Alan, answered his request pretty comprehensively but you would think that they would hang about for a while in case of developments. Surely we are not that scary. Alan. You tell us that you fitted all your mouthpieces, ligs, tools and spares into a toiletry container. That must have been a few years ago; nowadays you would need a freight container. :-))
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 19th 4:17 PM Yeah, I would have been out this weekend, but as in Mike Green's classic books, it takes me all day to put in a reef. Besides, my boat doesn't have any reef points, just a smaller sail, which would still be too large. One of my favourite sailing quotes is Boat (bôt): A hole in the water, surrounded by wood into which one pours money.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 19th 5:25 PM I'll drink to that !
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 19th 5:53 PM Lewis - it's the old story. When playing pro 'for real' I only had one of each sax, sop/alto/tenor and flute, they never let me down, with a couple of mouthpiece options for each (max six in total). I carried one reed clip and one box of reeds for each sax, mini-pliers, instrument screwdriver, odd bits of cork, elastic bands (spare springs are for wimps), string, electrical tape and sleeving, cable ties (the old metal type), sandpaper, some vaseline and a small tube of glue.... Oh, and a spare sling. Sad thing is, I can't remember ever using oil, must have, or did I ? That's all I survived on for almost a decade, still have most of the bits....... I think the alto and tenor (neither were top-notch saxes) each went into the 'shop' once during that time, but not the sop or flute. I remember the Boosey & Hawkes repairer saying about the alto "You've been to Germany, haven't you, they all come back like this....." Now, safely at home, and playing comparatively diddely-squat, I have backups for the backup-backup..... And they're all unused.. :-(( Tell me about it ! But those were the old days, we never worried about anything, and mostly got away with it....... (forgot the clari, but then most of the time it was unused..)