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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Good Natured Banter / Whether the Weather

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WW2
User ID: 8973393 Jul 11th 12:15 PM
You have read my complaints about lack of rain here in Southern California; but this is getting ridiculous!

Off the coast of Mexico we have a Tropical Storm that is doing its best to become a cyclone (hurricane). The usual results of this type of activity are that moisture spins off of the storm and heads into Southern California, Arizona and New Mexico (as well as Baja California and the Mexican Mainland) lowering temperatures and spawning rain and thunderstorms. This typically brings relief from the high temperatures and raises the humidity dramatically.

This storm has indeed tempered our temperatures. As of 10:00 AM the temperature is only 72F (22C) with humidity at 61%. Typical for this time of year it should be about 86F (30C) with humidity around 15%. So, this moisture and cloud cover is welcome.

However, our much needed rain is only given a 10% chance of happening. We are expecting DRY thunderstorms! Just what we need, lightning striking our very dry vegetation with no rain to stop or contain any ensuing fires. Well, I guess I should prepare for a long, smokey fire season.

If only we could take some of the European or Texan deluge and water thirsty Southern California!

ukebert
User ID: 0443584 Jul 23rd 10:30 AM
I ought to play the ukulele less, says Piers, but then he never had much of an ear.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 23rd 12:32 PM
Perhaps not much of an ear, but his taste cannot be faulted. Appropriate only for the end of Brighton Pier. :-)

Jim B
User ID: 0979534 Jul 23rd 12:50 PM
Newspaper today says:
MINNEAPOLIS MN USA(AP) — All hot and sweaty this summer? It could be the corn.

Climatologists are building evidence that crops, particularly corn, are driving up dew points as they put water into the atmosphere through evaporation. They also may make corn-growing areas cooler and alter rain patterns.

Some say the extra moisture could even add energy to thunderstorms, with one study arguing that a 2001 tornado in Benson got a power boost from corn evaporation.

“I think there’s a new realization that there is a two-way interaction between weather and agriculture,” said Richard Raddatz, a climatologist at the University of Winnipeg, who has studied the transformation of the Canadian prairies from grassland to cropland.

In some ways, researchers are taking a second look at a 19th century adage — “rain follows the plow.” Popularized by Charles Dana Wilber in an 1881 book touting the agricultural promise of Nebraska, the phrase supported a grand notion that the western Great Plains, which in the early 19th century had been labeled the “Great American Desert,” could be transformed into a garden if people would expose its moist soil to the atmosphere.

Rainy years added credibility to the idea, but it was discredited as pseudo-science after homesteaders who flooded the plains were trapped by drought and bankruptcy.

Raddatz, however, said there is a growing body of research indicating that contemporary crops do indeed change the way water, heat and energy interact with the atmosphere.

By “transpiring” more heavily than the prairie grasses that preceded them, and in relatively short periods, crops can generate air movements that can lead to storms, and intensify the season during which water is cycled through the atmosphere.

Raddatz published a summary of studies of cropping and weather in February in the journal Agricultural and Forest Meteorology. They add some oomph to a 2002 study of dew points by Northern Illinois University climatologist David Changnon, which pinned a 40-year trend toward higher dew points in the Midwest, and record-high dew points during recent heat waves, on changes in farming.

Other experts are skeptical.

Assistant Minnesota state climatologist Pete Boulay points out that in the Twin Cities, average dew points — a measure of water saturation in the air — during three of the past four summers have been below average. And much of the corn-rowed state is now in its second consecutive season of very dry conditions.

But Boulay does believe that a broadly irrigated landscape on the University of Minnesota St. Paul campus has contributed to dew points there that are higher than those at broadly paved Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport.

Peter Robinson, director of the Southeast Regional Climate Center in North Carolina, has studied dew-point trends nationally and found mixed results, including an upward nudge in corn-growing areas. But he said he is only “suspicious the two are related.”

University of Oklahoma climatologist Jeff Basara, who has spent most of his summers in Minnesota, traced a link between corn evaporation and an F2 tornado that injured seven people in Benson on June 11, 2001.

“There was going to be severe weather that day. But evaporation added enough moisture to the atmosphere and turned it from a day of localized severe weather reports to a day that really was a headline-maker,” said Basara, who published his research in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society in 2005.

Changnon, the Illinois researcher, found that since 1950, crops had replaced thousands of square miles of pastureland during the era of rising dew points. More significant, he said, was the shift in corn-planting from 40-inch rows to 30-inch rows.

“We’re just pouring more water into the air,” Changnon said.

Changnon said the results of his study shouldn’t demonize agriculture but should prompt urban areas to be alert to the public health threat dew points in the 70s or higher can bring.
.

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Jul 23rd 1:55 PM
Well, if anyone hasn't seen the news, huge areas of rural England are now flooded, and (surprise, surprise) water supplies are failing because they got contaminated by flood water, plus now electricity is failing in those areas because (naturally) sub-stations were built without any thought of flood precautions....

I guess even bus-shelters will be built on stilts in the future (or so I'm told, by some of my peers...). Glad I live on a hill ! Thought I'd post this quickly before they find that some essential component of the world-wide-web is cunningly located in a terrorist-free telephone exchange, with rapidly rising water levels outside, on a flood plain, in Gloucestershire, England... Stranger things have happened - glug, glug, glug.....

Does six foot of stagnant water affect the dew-point ? Thanks for bringing the topic back on track, Jim !

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 23rd 2:30 PM
Wade. Short of water? We have plenty...swap for some sunshine.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 23rd 2:56 PM
Clearly there is nothing wrong with the Earth's climate as such...simply a matter of redistribution!

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Jul 23rd 4:13 PM
I just loved the comment emailed in to one news channel.

"Too much Water ?"..."Get Thames Water involved, they lose millions of gallons a year...."

jazzbug1
User ID: 9781133 Jul 23rd 11:02 PM
My backyard fruit trees do very well, I am told by my pears.

Castaway
User ID: 9182423 Jul 24th 5:35 PM
Hi/I am flying to Jamaica on Sunday, July 29th to play a three month Gig at the Ritz Carlton in Rose Hall, Jamaica. Captain Muggles will be meeting me there in three weeks. He turned me on to the Gig. (God bless him). He has a gig in another part of the island in an Island Band. (Jimmy Buffet, Raggae, etc.) I think the band is named Windy City Rasta or something like that. Ta Ta. It's been nice. I might still post if I get a laptop while I am there. Muggles leaves Europe in about 2 weeks. Ta Ta.

WW2
User ID: 8973393 Jul 24th 6:29 PM
IT RAINED!

Well, sort of...

On Sunday, my family and I counted 15 raindrops on the windshield of our car during a 15 minute commute. Monday morning I came out and noticed that there were dirt circles on my car indicating that it had rained, but only enough to take the dirt out of the air and deposit it on my car. That's what I get for getting my wife's car and my car washed on Saturday. Perhaps if both of my daughters had washed their cars we would have had more rain!

The humidity has gone up enough in Southern California for our normal patter of Thunderclouds developing in the afternoon. There is a 20% chance of rain in the current forecast!

How much rain did we get? According to the official weather reports for Temecula California, we go 0.00 inches of rain. Officially this is recorded as a "trace" since it is such a small amount that it is noticeable but not measurable. Our usual total at this point in the season is 0.08” (about 2mm).

Captain Beeflat, YES! Let’s redistribute the rainfall pattern so Southern California gets wet for a while!

Alan, build a bus-shelter on stilts? Shouldn’t it be called a “dock”? Hope all of you are safe from the floods, rain, water shortages (ironic that a flood causes water shortages) and all the other calamities that are happening in your areas!

Currently in Temecula it is 90F (32C), humidity is 40% and the dew point is 62F (~17C) with a 20% chance of precipitation!

Guwapo
User ID: 9321503 Jul 25th 2:55 AM
Here in Yorkshire we haven't seen the sun for months, we seem to be living under a permanent cloud cover even when it is not raining. Later from the weather experts is that it is El Nino in reverse and is caused by a pooling of cool water of the coast of Peru in the eastern Pacific. How that affects us here on the other side of the world boggles the imagination. Whilst all so called experts agree that our weather is caused by climate change, they do not all agree that it is caused by human activity. I was listening to an "expert" on the radio yesterday who was talking about the Irish potato famine of 1845-50 which was called by freak weather conditions, caused over a million deaths in Ireland in five years and caused mass migration to the new world. Famine during the Napoleonic Wars also contributed to the collapse of the French Empire. Also to be noted is that a warm period always heralds in the return of an ice age. :-(

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Jul 25th 4:35 AM
Wade - "Alan, build a bus-shelter on stilts? Shouldn’t it be called a “dock? "

Yes, or a jetty..... Well spotted.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 25th 4:46 AM
Or, I hesitate to say,a PIER. :-)

jazzbug1
User ID: 0735934 Jul 25th 8:37 AM
Castaway and Bb-- I wish you a wonderful time and significant $$ in Jamaica. Sounds like a pleasant experience. Maybe you could grow long hair and have it braided for your return home.
Good Luck. Jazzbug1

Castaway
User ID: 9182423 Jul 25th 11:52 AM
jazzbug1/That would be Castaway and Captain Muggles. Not Captain Bb. They are 2 different people. (only 4 days to go before takeoff). I have some hair, but Captain Muggles has a shaved head, except for a pony tail on his bald pate. Maybe he will get that braided.

JJ !@#$%^*( )_+
User ID: 9203613 Jul 25th 2:39 PM
Definitely 2 different Captains.

Castaway
User ID: 9182423 Jul 25th 2:42 PM
Also 2 different mindsets.

Portico
User ID: 0826264 Jul 25th 2:57 PM
Strange forum here. But that's alright. Sometimes it gets quite interesting. All the different things going on.

JJ !@#$%^*( )_+
User ID: 9203613 Jul 25th 3:00 PM
Portico: You got that right.

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

WW2 User ID: 8973393	Jul 11th 12:15 PM You have read my complaints about lack of rain here in Southern California; but this is getting ridiculous! Off the coast of Mexico we have a Tropical Storm that is doing its best to become a cyclone (hurricane). The usual results of this type of activity are that moisture spins off of the storm and heads into Southern California, Arizona and New Mexico (as well as Baja California and the Mexican Mainland) lowering temperatures and spawning rain and thunderstorms. This typically brings relief from the high temperatures and raises the humidity dramatically. This storm has indeed tempered our temperatures. As of 10:00 AM the temperature is only 72F (22C) with humidity at 61%. Typical for this time of year it should be about 86F (30C) with humidity around 15%. So, this moisture and cloud cover is welcome. However, our much needed rain is only given a 10% chance of happening. We are expecting DRY thunderstorms! Just what we need, lightning striking our very dry vegetation with no rain to stop or contain any ensuing fires. Well, I guess I should prepare for a long, smokey fire season. If only we could take some of the European or Texan deluge and water thirsty Southern California!
ukebert User ID: 0443584	Jul 23rd 10:30 AM I ought to play the ukulele less, says Piers, but then he never had much of an ear.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 23rd 12:32 PM Perhaps not much of an ear, but his taste cannot be faulted. Appropriate only for the end of Brighton Pier. :-)
Jim B User ID: 0979534	Jul 23rd 12:50 PM Newspaper today says: MINNEAPOLIS MN USA(AP) — All hot and sweaty this summer? It could be the corn. Climatologists are building evidence that crops, particularly corn, are driving up dew points as they put water into the atmosphere through evaporation. They also may make corn-growing areas cooler and alter rain patterns. Some say the extra moisture could even add energy to thunderstorms, with one study arguing that a 2001 tornado in Benson got a power boost from corn evaporation. “I think there’s a new realization that there is a two-way interaction between weather and agriculture,” said Richard Raddatz, a climatologist at the University of Winnipeg, who has studied the transformation of the Canadian prairies from grassland to cropland. In some ways, researchers are taking a second look at a 19th century adage — “rain follows the plow.” Popularized by Charles Dana Wilber in an 1881 book touting the agricultural promise of Nebraska, the phrase supported a grand notion that the western Great Plains, which in the early 19th century had been labeled the “Great American Desert,” could be transformed into a garden if people would expose its moist soil to the atmosphere. Rainy years added credibility to the idea, but it was discredited as pseudo-science after homesteaders who flooded the plains were trapped by drought and bankruptcy. Raddatz, however, said there is a growing body of research indicating that contemporary crops do indeed change the way water, heat and energy interact with the atmosphere. By “transpiring” more heavily than the prairie grasses that preceded them, and in relatively short periods, crops can generate air movements that can lead to storms, and intensify the season during which water is cycled through the atmosphere. Raddatz published a summary of studies of cropping and weather in February in the journal Agricultural and Forest Meteorology. They add some oomph to a 2002 study of dew points by Northern Illinois University climatologist David Changnon, which pinned a 40-year trend toward higher dew points in the Midwest, and record-high dew points during recent heat waves, on changes in farming. Other experts are skeptical. Assistant Minnesota state climatologist Pete Boulay points out that in the Twin Cities, average dew points — a measure of water saturation in the air — during three of the past four summers have been below average. And much of the corn-rowed state is now in its second consecutive season of very dry conditions. But Boulay does believe that a broadly irrigated landscape on the University of Minnesota St. Paul campus has contributed to dew points there that are higher than those at broadly paved Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport. Peter Robinson, director of the Southeast Regional Climate Center in North Carolina, has studied dew-point trends nationally and found mixed results, including an upward nudge in corn-growing areas. But he said he is only “suspicious the two are related.” University of Oklahoma climatologist Jeff Basara, who has spent most of his summers in Minnesota, traced a link between corn evaporation and an F2 tornado that injured seven people in Benson on June 11, 2001. “There was going to be severe weather that day. But evaporation added enough moisture to the atmosphere and turned it from a day of localized severe weather reports to a day that really was a headline-maker,” said Basara, who published his research in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society in 2005. Changnon, the Illinois researcher, found that since 1950, crops had replaced thousands of square miles of pastureland during the era of rising dew points. More significant, he said, was the shift in corn-planting from 40-inch rows to 30-inch rows. “We’re just pouring more water into the air,” Changnon said. Changnon said the results of his study shouldn’t demonize agriculture but should prompt urban areas to be alert to the public health threat dew points in the 70s or higher can bring. .
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Jul 23rd 1:55 PM Well, if anyone hasn't seen the news, huge areas of rural England are now flooded, and (surprise, surprise) water supplies are failing because they got contaminated by flood water, plus now electricity is failing in those areas because (naturally) sub-stations were built without any thought of flood precautions.... I guess even bus-shelters will be built on stilts in the future (or so I'm told, by some of my peers...). Glad I live on a hill ! Thought I'd post this quickly before they find that some essential component of the world-wide-web is cunningly located in a terrorist-free telephone exchange, with rapidly rising water levels outside, on a flood plain, in Gloucestershire, England... Stranger things have happened - glug, glug, glug..... Does six foot of stagnant water affect the dew-point ? Thanks for bringing the topic back on track, Jim !
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 23rd 2:30 PM Wade. Short of water? We have plenty...swap for some sunshine.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 23rd 2:56 PM Clearly there is nothing wrong with the Earth's climate as such...simply a matter of redistribution!
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Jul 23rd 4:13 PM I just loved the comment emailed in to one news channel. "Too much Water ?"..."Get Thames Water involved, they lose millions of gallons a year...."
jazzbug1 User ID: 9781133	Jul 23rd 11:02 PM My backyard fruit trees do very well, I am told by my pears.
Castaway User ID: 9182423	Jul 24th 5:35 PM Hi/I am flying to Jamaica on Sunday, July 29th to play a three month Gig at the Ritz Carlton in Rose Hall, Jamaica. Captain Muggles will be meeting me there in three weeks. He turned me on to the Gig. (God bless him). He has a gig in another part of the island in an Island Band. (Jimmy Buffet, Raggae, etc.) I think the band is named Windy City Rasta or something like that. Ta Ta. It's been nice. I might still post if I get a laptop while I am there. Muggles leaves Europe in about 2 weeks. Ta Ta.
WW2 User ID: 8973393	Jul 24th 6:29 PM IT RAINED! Well, sort of... On Sunday, my family and I counted 15 raindrops on the windshield of our car during a 15 minute commute. Monday morning I came out and noticed that there were dirt circles on my car indicating that it had rained, but only enough to take the dirt out of the air and deposit it on my car. That's what I get for getting my wife's car and my car washed on Saturday. Perhaps if both of my daughters had washed their cars we would have had more rain! The humidity has gone up enough in Southern California for our normal patter of Thunderclouds developing in the afternoon. There is a 20% chance of rain in the current forecast! How much rain did we get? According to the official weather reports for Temecula California, we go 0.00 inches of rain. Officially this is recorded as a "trace" since it is such a small amount that it is noticeable but not measurable. Our usual total at this point in the season is 0.08” (about 2mm). Captain Beeflat, YES! Let’s redistribute the rainfall pattern so Southern California gets wet for a while! Alan, build a bus-shelter on stilts? Shouldn’t it be called a “dock”? Hope all of you are safe from the floods, rain, water shortages (ironic that a flood causes water shortages) and all the other calamities that are happening in your areas! Currently in Temecula it is 90F (32C), humidity is 40% and the dew point is 62F (~17C) with a 20% chance of precipitation!
Guwapo User ID: 9321503	Jul 25th 2:55 AM Here in Yorkshire we haven't seen the sun for months, we seem to be living under a permanent cloud cover even when it is not raining. Later from the weather experts is that it is El Nino in reverse and is caused by a pooling of cool water of the coast of Peru in the eastern Pacific. How that affects us here on the other side of the world boggles the imagination. Whilst all so called experts agree that our weather is caused by climate change, they do not all agree that it is caused by human activity. I was listening to an "expert" on the radio yesterday who was talking about the Irish potato famine of 1845-50 which was called by freak weather conditions, caused over a million deaths in Ireland in five years and caused mass migration to the new world. Famine during the Napoleonic Wars also contributed to the collapse of the French Empire. Also to be noted is that a warm period always heralds in the return of an ice age. :-(
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Jul 25th 4:35 AM Wade - "Alan, build a bus-shelter on stilts? Shouldn’t it be called a “dock? " Yes, or a jetty..... Well spotted.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 25th 4:46 AM Or, I hesitate to say,a PIER. :-)
jazzbug1 User ID: 0735934	Jul 25th 8:37 AM Castaway and Bb-- I wish you a wonderful time and significant $$ in Jamaica. Sounds like a pleasant experience. Maybe you could grow long hair and have it braided for your return home. Good Luck. Jazzbug1
Castaway User ID: 9182423	Jul 25th 11:52 AM jazzbug1/That would be Castaway and Captain Muggles. Not Captain Bb. They are 2 different people. (only 4 days to go before takeoff). I have some hair, but Captain Muggles has a shaved head, except for a pony tail on his bald pate. Maybe he will get that braided.
JJ !@#$%^( )_+ User ID: 9203613*	Jul 25th 2:39 PM Definitely 2 different Captains.
Castaway User ID: 9182423	Jul 25th 2:42 PM Also 2 different mindsets.
Portico User ID: 0826264	Jul 25th 2:57 PM Strange forum here. But that's alright. Sometimes it gets quite interesting. All the different things going on.
JJ !@#$%^( )_+ User ID: 9203613*	Jul 25th 3:00 PM Portico: You got that right.