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Dune House Atreides / Dune Book 7 / Opinions after you've finished the book

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Nora
Moderator
User ID: 8715613 Aug 27th 11:49 AM
Has anybody else finished Hunters of Dune?

Opinions here.

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 29th 4:58 PM
Never ever ever did Frank mention an Oracle of Time.
The only diety in the entire series was Leto II.

Rob
User ID: 3160124 Aug 29th 5:02 PM
No, I'm 99.9% sure no mention was made of any "oracle of time" in FH's original novels.

only About 1/4 way through Hunters myself, but curiosity got the better of me, so I took a few glances. Some of the stuff in there is looking a little too much like a continuation of the Legends trilogy, and less like a continuation of the "classic" Dune.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 1:35 PM
oracle of time: yeah thats kind of what i thought
another question = is there ANY mention of Norma in FH's six books?

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 30th 1:43 PM
Freazilla has a very small qoute by the God Emperor in his bag. He post it some time back in "Was Norma
a Kwisatz Haderach." We were wondering why the BG, Guild nor the KW's ever mentioned her.

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 30th 2:22 PM
It has now become obvious why Norma's children were never introduced into the BG breeding program or herself barely mentioned by Maudib and Leto II. Norma never really existed in the original Dune Universe. That's why she defies every physical law in that Universe. She is Brian's pet creation. His answer to Leto II.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:36 PM
What was the quote from God Emperor? And by the way I tend to agree with you about her. But you know look at all the possibilities to find out if their is the smallest possibility of her or oracle of time being in FH books. Not that I want to defend BH and KJA but to place it correctly. or someting like that. Trying to work and type so fogive if it sounds wrong. I like wraping my head
around these discussions but its hard to give full attention while reading

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:37 PM
i meant working, sorry

rever
User ID: 0296604 Aug 30th 4:45 PM
Norma WAS meantioned in one of the books, but it was one sentence about her(from BGs i think). There was no meantion about any oracle, and Leto was the only diety in the whole book.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:52 PM
but what was the quote, page number, I want to look it up? And what was the passage where FH names who Marty and Daniel, page number. What I thought was lame was how BH and KJA tied Marty to Martyr, Omnius's pet name of Erasmus in Legends. What did you think of that?

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:54 PM
hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets.

rever
User ID: 7789183 Aug 31st 6:53 AM
i am not sure about norma, i haven;t read all of the books in a while, but i think its in god emperor, Oh, also last page on chapterhouse TELLS you who Daniel+marty are, BH and KJA fucked that up real nice, like they haven;t read the books. IN the last chapter of chapterhouse dune FH tells you who the enemy IS.

rever
User ID: 7789183 Aug 31st 6:59 AM
Quote from the last few pages of chapterhouse:
"Don't see why. Always whistling at us always making it necessary to stomp them down. I don;t like treating Masters that way and you know it! If it weren;t fr them..."
"They are not gods, Daniel"
"Neither are we."
"I still thnk you let them escape . You're so anxious to prune your roses!"
"What would you have said to the Master, anyways" Daniel asked.
"I was going to joke when he asked who we were. They always ask that. I was going to say 'What did you expect God Himself with a flowing beard?'"
Daniel chackled. "That would've been funny . They have such a hard time accepting that Face Dancers can be independent of them. "
"I din;t see why. It's a naturla consequence. They gave us the power to absorb the memories and experience of other people, gather enouhg of those and...."
"It's personal we take Marty."
......blah blah blah, too lazy to type an more, but u get the idea.Page 431-432 Chapterhouse dune.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 31st 9:40 AM
thanks Rever. I will read those pages this weekend. I want to compare the links between Hunters and Chapterhouse. Just for shits and giggles. Have a good one. Cheers.

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 31st 11:24 AM
"hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets."

Norma was not a Kwisatz Haderach. By definition, a Kwisatz Haderach is a male Bene Gesserit. Norma was neither male or BG, although, as BH depicts her, she could've founded any of the Dune schools.
Please see Dune House Atreides / Dune General / Was Norma a Kwisatz Haderach?

Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor?

Again, another major inconsistency re-viving the argument that BH ignores the original Novels and is re-writing history.

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 31st 11:28 AM
Freakzilla,

Can you please provide that qoute when Leto II mentions Norma?

Robin H.
User ID: 0701364 Aug 31st 11:55 AM
He can, but I hope you will also be satisfied by me doing the job. ;-)

>>>
"I course backward down the flight of ancestors, hunting along the tributaries,
darting into nooks and crannies. You would not recognize many of their names.
Who has ever heard of Norma Cenva? I have lived her!"
"Lived her?" his imaginary visitor asked.
"Of course- Why else would one keep one's ancestors around'' You think a man
designed the first Guild ship:' Your history books told you it was Aurelius
Venport? They lied. It was his mistress, Norma. She gave him the design, along
with five children. He thought his ego would take no less. In the end. the
knowledge that he had not really fulfilled his own image, that was what
destroyed him."
"You have lived him, too?"
"Naturally. And I have traversed the far wanderings of the Fremen. Through my
father's line and the others, I have gone right back to the House of Atreus."

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 31st 3:40 PM
shinnok - that is exactly the point im making in regard to Norma / Oracle of Time. She is not a KH nor a God and was not written about by FH. Critics of the character already know this. And from reading your posts all over this website its pretty obvious that you have no love for BH or those who like his writing. What I saying to you, is that I would not put it past BH and KJA in Dune 7.2 to have Leto II met up with thier "God" or "KH" Norma ("" meaning sarcasm just in case you did not get that). The observation of, "Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor?" is exactly my point. Norma / Oracle of Time is without a doubt MY biggest problem I have with BH's tie to FH's Dune books.
In addition, I never elluded that I thought Norma was KH, I know the definition of what a KH is. When I said "other" KH, it was with the use of sarcasm. Sarcasm because I dislike their creation of Norma and her "transformation" in The Machine Crusade. Dungeons and Dragons, anyone. Anyway, I hope this cleared up any confusion as to where I stand on Norma's status. My hope is that she does not become any type of factor in Dune 7.2. However, as I stated earlier, it would not surprise me IF BH and KJA have the two characters meet. Besides howeling in meisery at this prospect, I will be collecting my winnings from the bet I posted above. The question I was asking of you Shinnok was, "Can you see BH and KJA putting these two together?" Because I know that you would decapitate BH and KJA if this happened. BH and KJA would die because I know the answer you stated in your post, "Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor?'
and thats why I dread BH;s inconsistant link to FH's books that I am betting will happen. What do you think? Will this take place? I already know why they shouldn't and with you. I just want to know if you think it will happen. Cheers

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 31st 4:02 PM
Thanks Robin H, for the quote. So, what Leto II is saying is that he is accessing the memories of Norma? That he's, "lived her life". Wait a minute. How can he live her life, if, according to BH and KJA, she has never died. She is the Oracle of Time (revelation music in the background), and she is floating in some take on the guilds home planet. MAJOR inconsistance besides the fact that they try to make her a god/KH (as Shinok points out). What kills me in Hunters, BH and KJA try to gloss over thier inconsistances with the chapter (dont have book in front of me), where Duncan talks to the sister opposed to the Guild. Duncan talks about the birth of Paul and how it was on Kaitan and not Caladaan. Duncan states how myths and legends obscure the truth. Its like BH is saying that parts of FH's story can be changed because its a myth that was not reported correctly. BH, "Crap we screwed up the birth of Paul and everyones pissed, I know throw in a chapter that says what FH writes about Paul is a myth and what we wrote about in the Prequels is the truth" Any thoughts on this people beyond the, "They are trying to make money...." Cheers.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 31st 4:07 PM
sorry, when i said the sisters opposition to the guild i meant ghola. Sorry, im at work typing fast. So if any part of these make sense let me know and i will clarify. and pardon the typo's. Thanks

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Nora Moderator User ID: 8715613	Aug 27th 11:49 AM Has anybody else finished Hunters of Dune? Opinions here.
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 29th 4:58 PM Never ever ever did Frank mention an Oracle of Time. The only diety in the entire series was Leto II.
Rob User ID: 3160124	Aug 29th 5:02 PM No, I'm 99.9% sure no mention was made of any "oracle of time" in FH's original novels. only About 1/4 way through Hunters myself, but curiosity got the better of me, so I took a few glances. Some of the stuff in there is looking a little too much like a continuation of the Legends trilogy, and less like a continuation of the "classic" Dune.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 1:35 PM oracle of time: yeah thats kind of what i thought another question = is there ANY mention of Norma in FH's six books?
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 30th 1:43 PM Freazilla has a very small qoute by the God Emperor in his bag. He post it some time back in "Was Norma a Kwisatz Haderach." We were wondering why the BG, Guild nor the KW's ever mentioned her.
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 30th 2:22 PM It has now become obvious why Norma's children were never introduced into the BG breeding program or herself barely mentioned by Maudib and Leto II. Norma never really existed in the original Dune Universe. That's why she defies every physical law in that Universe. She is Brian's pet creation. His answer to Leto II.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:36 PM What was the quote from God Emperor? And by the way I tend to agree with you about her. But you know look at all the possibilities to find out if their is the smallest possibility of her or oracle of time being in FH books. Not that I want to defend BH and KJA but to place it correctly. or someting like that. Trying to work and type so fogive if it sounds wrong. I like wraping my head around these discussions but its hard to give full attention while reading
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:37 PM i meant working, sorry
rever User ID: 0296604	Aug 30th 4:45 PM Norma WAS meantioned in one of the books, but it was one sentence about her(from BGs i think). There was no meantion about any oracle, and Leto was the only diety in the whole book.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:52 PM but what was the quote, page number, I want to look it up? And what was the passage where FH names who Marty and Daniel, page number. What I thought was lame was how BH and KJA tied Marty to Martyr, Omnius's pet name of Erasmus in Legends. What did you think of that?
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:54 PM hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets.
rever User ID: 7789183	Aug 31st 6:53 AM i am not sure about norma, i haven;t read all of the books in a while, but i think its in god emperor, Oh, also last page on chapterhouse TELLS you who Daniel+marty are, BH and KJA fucked that up real nice, like they haven;t read the books. IN the last chapter of chapterhouse dune FH tells you who the enemy IS.
rever User ID: 7789183	Aug 31st 6:59 AM Quote from the last few pages of chapterhouse: "Don't see why. Always whistling at us always making it necessary to stomp them down. I don;t like treating Masters that way and you know it! If it weren;t fr them..." "They are not gods, Daniel" "Neither are we." "I still thnk you let them escape . You're so anxious to prune your roses!" "What would you have said to the Master, anyways" Daniel asked. "I was going to joke when he asked who we were. They always ask that. I was going to say 'What did you expect God Himself with a flowing beard?'" Daniel chackled. "That would've been funny . They have such a hard time accepting that Face Dancers can be independent of them. " "I din;t see why. It's a naturla consequence. They gave us the power to absorb the memories and experience of other people, gather enouhg of those and...." "It's personal we take Marty." ......blah blah blah, too lazy to type an more, but u get the idea.Page 431-432 Chapterhouse dune.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 31st 9:40 AM thanks Rever. I will read those pages this weekend. I want to compare the links between Hunters and Chapterhouse. Just for shits and giggles. Have a good one. Cheers.
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 31st 11:24 AM "hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets." Norma was not a Kwisatz Haderach. By definition, a Kwisatz Haderach is a male Bene Gesserit. Norma was neither male or BG, although, as BH depicts her, she could've founded any of the Dune schools. Please see Dune House Atreides / Dune General / Was Norma a Kwisatz Haderach? Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor? Again, another major inconsistency re-viving the argument that BH ignores the original Novels and is re-writing history.
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 31st 11:28 AM Freakzilla, Can you please provide that qoute when Leto II mentions Norma?
Robin H. User ID: 0701364	Aug 31st 11:55 AM He can, but I hope you will also be satisfied by me doing the job. ;-) >>> "I course backward down the flight of ancestors, hunting along the tributaries, darting into nooks and crannies. You would not recognize many of their names. Who has ever heard of Norma Cenva? I have lived her!" "Lived her?" his imaginary visitor asked. "Of course- Why else would one keep one's ancestors around'' You think a man designed the first Guild ship:' Your history books told you it was Aurelius Venport? They lied. It was his mistress, Norma. She gave him the design, along with five children. He thought his ego would take no less. In the end. the knowledge that he had not really fulfilled his own image, that was what destroyed him." "You have lived him, too?" "Naturally. And I have traversed the far wanderings of the Fremen. Through my father's line and the others, I have gone right back to the House of Atreus."
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 31st 3:40 PM shinnok - that is exactly the point im making in regard to Norma / Oracle of Time. She is not a KH nor a God and was not written about by FH. Critics of the character already know this. And from reading your posts all over this website its pretty obvious that you have no love for BH or those who like his writing. What I saying to you, is that I would not put it past BH and KJA in Dune 7.2 to have Leto II met up with thier "God" or "KH" Norma ("" meaning sarcasm just in case you did not get that). The observation of, "Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor?" is exactly my point. Norma / Oracle of Time is without a doubt MY biggest problem I have with BH's tie to FH's Dune books. In addition, I never elluded that I thought Norma was KH, I know the definition of what a KH is. When I said "other" KH, it was with the use of sarcasm. Sarcasm because I dislike their creation of Norma and her "transformation" in The Machine Crusade. Dungeons and Dragons, anyone. Anyway, I hope this cleared up any confusion as to where I stand on Norma's status. My hope is that she does not become any type of factor in Dune 7.2. However, as I stated earlier, it would not surprise me IF BH and KJA have the two characters meet. Besides howeling in meisery at this prospect, I will be collecting my winnings from the bet I posted above. The question I was asking of you Shinnok was, "Can you see BH and KJA putting these two together?" Because I know that you would decapitate BH and KJA if this happened. BH and KJA would die because I know the answer you stated in your post, "Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor?' and thats why I dread BH;s inconsistant link to FH's books that I am betting will happen. What do you think? Will this take place? I already know why they shouldn't and with you. I just want to know if you think it will happen. Cheers
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 31st 4:02 PM Thanks Robin H, for the quote. So, what Leto II is saying is that he is accessing the memories of Norma? That he's, "lived her life". Wait a minute. How can he live her life, if, according to BH and KJA, she has never died. She is the Oracle of Time (revelation music in the background), and she is floating in some take on the guilds home planet. MAJOR inconsistance besides the fact that they try to make her a god/KH (as Shinok points out). What kills me in Hunters, BH and KJA try to gloss over thier inconsistances with the chapter (dont have book in front of me), where Duncan talks to the sister opposed to the Guild. Duncan talks about the birth of Paul and how it was on Kaitan and not Caladaan. Duncan states how myths and legends obscure the truth. Its like BH is saying that parts of FH's story can be changed because its a myth that was not reported correctly. BH, "Crap we screwed up the birth of Paul and everyones pissed, I know throw in a chapter that says what FH writes about Paul is a myth and what we wrote about in the Prequels is the truth" Any thoughts on this people beyond the, "They are trying to make money...." Cheers.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 31st 4:07 PM sorry, when i said the sisters opposition to the guild i meant ghola. Sorry, im at work typing fast. So if any part of these make sense let me know and i will clarify. and pardon the typo's. Thanks