Dune House Atreides

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Admin
User ID: 7873223 Oct 5th 7:42 PM
Please post your comments and feedback on the new Dune House Atreides novel here.

Sir Zukka.
User ID: 9426023 Nov 6th 11:40 AM
House Ateides is quite good in my opinion, but certainly not as good as the original Dune. I find the writing style to be easy to read without occasionally falling into "profound-nonsense" as FH's did. But no matter what you may think, HA is by no means the worst Dune book written so far. It does, unfortunately, remain under the mistaken impression that Duncan Idaho is an interesting character. The Dune series so far:

Dune: superb and un beaten. Great style and alot of important events happening.

Dune Messiah: What was the point? Very bland story with nothing really happening with the exception of Paul's death (hurray!)

CHildren of Dune: the 2nd best. Great story and detail, politics (which i love in the dune books) and the merging of my two favourite characters, those being Alia and the Baron.

God Emperor of Dune: barely readable, minimal deatil, action lacking in excitement, huge anti-climax and the dullest ever character to be devised in anything: Leto II

Heretics of Dune: yet more "concept" writing with more hollow characters and the king of them all, Duncan Idaho, who...just..will..not..die.

Chapterhouse: Dune: Duller than an inflight magazine produced by Air Belgium.

So before you critise HA, be thankful that it actually has a plot and some good moments, unlike the ones i mentioned above.

breetah
User ID: 9259363 Nov 7th 12:52 PM
I can accept that this is KJA and BH's project. As I said I enjoyed the story, I just missed FH prose... that said: I'll be buying the rest of the books as they come out... right now I'll take Dune in almost anyway that I can get it... :)

Chris
User ID: 1460434 Nov 7th 9:36 PM
First of all; to Steve and to Ellison; Could you guys trade e-mail addresses or IRC numbers and continue this debate in some other forum?

Having said that; I read and enjoyed House Atreides. True, I do believe that it was, perhaps, not quite up to the par of what Frank Herbert wrote in the original six books; but then, nothing ever would be. Frank Herbert is dead; long live Frank Herbert, long live Dune. In both of their very interesting afterwords; both Anderson and Herbert had interesting things to say about how they envisioned Dune to continue, based on what had come before.
There were things that were, perhaps, a little contrived; I heard some mention of Star Trek IV, some mention of other works; well, what can you do? There are always going to be detractors who are going to have a go at what is presented for whatever reason. I have a feeling that if Frank Herbert were alive today and if he had written House Atreides and if it had been identical, then there would be no such detractions. Why? Because Frank Herbert WROTE THE BOOK. Alas, dear friends, this is not to be.

I read House Atreides in a little under a week; then went on to re-read the original trilogy once more. Admittedly, there were a few glitches here and there; the whole thing (in my mind) seemed to keep fairly coherent.
The only thing I really noticed that was potentially an error, was this;
In Dune, when Duncan Idaho is brought before the Lady Jessica, he speaks about having first being 'bloodied on Grumman.' How he killed a Harkonnen for the duke. There was no reference to this; but it is well possible that Herbert and Anderson will address this in either 'House Harkonnen' or elsewhere.

As to the whole matter of how Pardot Kynes came to Arrakis, hooked up with the Fremen and so on; If anyone goes back and re-reads the appendix to the original book 'The ecology of dune'; then they will find that it is fairly verbatim.

On the matter of how Mohiam conceived Jessica (and the earlier child); while it isn't exactly how Paul said it to Jessica - "in his youth, the baron sampled many pleasures, he even once allowed himself to be seduced by one of you (Bene Geserit)"; It still fits in with the general consensus that a) the baron copulated with a Bene Geserit, and b) that it was Mohiam.

So, in closing; be open minded on House Atreides and lenient on BH and KJA. They did a pretty good job. What would you prefer? a book that many don't like because it wasn't written by Frank Herbert and may have contradicted some points that came from the Dune Encyclopedia (a book that has NEVER been recognised as canon)? or there having been no more Dune books at all?

That's what I thought.

Thank you.

E
User ID: 7900703 Nov 8th 9:04 AM
GAB and The Tuck

Actually, I thought House Atreides was a very eye-opening, and fabricating to the Dune series. I can not wait until House Harkonnen, Spice Wars or( House corrino). One question does arose my curiousity? Will there be a seventh book.

E
User ID: 7900703 Nov 8th 9:04 AM
GAB and The Tuck

Actually, I thought House Atreides was a very eye-opening, and fabricating to the Dune series. I can not wait until House Harkonnen, Spice Wars or( House corrino). One question does arose my curiousity? Will there be a seventh book.

E
User ID: 7900703 Nov 8th 9:05 AM
GAB and The Tuck

Actually, I thought House Atreides was a very eye-opening, and fabricating to the Dune series. I can not wait until House Harkonnen, Spice Wars or( House corrino). One question does arose my curiousity? Will there be a seventh book.

Leto
User ID: 9426023 Nov 8th 2:02 PM
Good thing you posted that 3 times E, i had a sudden bout of momentary blindness, that, without your kindness and consideration, would have left me blissfully unaware of what your message was.

EELLISON
User ID: 0150524 Nov 9th 3:50 PM
CHRIS

I thought the book was quite eye opening. It is well written book.

SteveP
User ID: 1557854 Nov 11th 10:51 PM
A couple of things, folks:

1) I'm sorry, but Mohiam cannot be Jessica's mother, for the simple fact that Jessica's mother was Tanidia Nerus. In CoD, Leto II reveals this to Jessica, siting B.G. Breeding Records.

Note to KJA and Brian: Read the existing books BEFORE writing new ones.

2) Dune Messiah had a very definite point: It told the story of Paul's fall from power. It was the complement to Dune. In Dune Messiah, you'll recall that a BT (Scytale, IIRC) says that the BT created a KH once, and it destroyed itseld rather than become what it opposed. Paul knew that to truly save mankind he would have to become a tyrant, stealing the reigns of humanity as he steered them onto the Golden Path. He could not cope with the fact that he would be remembered as evil and corrupt, and (in a cowardly manner, IMHO) ran off into the desert as soon as he realized his son would do his job for him.

Yes, Dune Messiah was a little dry to people who are reading this series for action, but for those of us who appreciate the pure literary value of the Dune Chronicles, Dune Messiah is an integral part of an epic tale.

SteveP
User ID: 1557854 Nov 11th 11:08 PM
It has occured to me that I've not really made my stance on House Atreides clear; I've mostly just bitched.

I read the Dune Chronicles, and continue to read them, for their literary merit. Frank's work is literary, it has depth, it requires digestion to truly understand and appreciate the numerous facets of Frank's awesome work. I've read the series more times than I can remember, and with each reread, more of Frank's vision is revealed to me. I like the Dune Chronicles because I have to dig for details and meaning, not in spite of it. I love Frank's work for its subtlety.

House Atreides is about as subtle as a kick to the crotch. There's nothing for me to digest in this book, nothing for me to mull over. Everything is there in front of me. To me, this is nor fun reading. If I want an author to hold my hand through a book and leave nothing at all to the imagination, well, I'd watch TV.

The blatent contradictions are annoying, too, but I've said enough about those.

Jack
User ID: 9426023 Nov 13th 10:07 AM
About Dune Messiah:

There's little actually wrong with it, i understand that its a necessary step in the Dune series, my point however, is this.
There isn't enough in the book to make it a stand-alone, as most of the others were, since there are no major events happening, only analysis of the original and Paul having a bout of self-pity.
It should have been part of Children of Dune instead of being by itself, as in that book it would have made more sense and actually had an ending instead of just a long meander to nowhere.

About House Atreides:

It's not as detailed as the others, but be thankful its not Heretics, which was so dire that words can not express it fully. Despite lack of detail, it has multiple plots and some good dialogue along with, brace yourself, some actual and intriging events (an emperor once again conspiring against a great house, Paulus dieing etc.) unlike the afformentioned DM and Heretics.

Tyler
User ID: 9670323 Nov 15th 11:04 AM
I'm about 3/4 of the way through House Atreides, and it looks like my findings agree with most - Not up to par with the master (Herbert), but none the less, new Dune material.
Actually, I've got a question for a knowledgeable Dune fan. I consider myself somewhat intelligent (no jokes, please), but could someone please give me their point of view on the ending of Chapterhouse??? I'd like to hear some other viewpoints. Thanks. . .

SteveP
User ID: 1557854 Nov 21st 6:50 PM
I thought the book (Dune Messiah) stood well enough on its own. I ended with Paul's exit, leaving the third book to start fresh with Leto and Ghanima.

Can I ask what was so horrible about Heretics? It's been awhile since I've read that one, but I seem to recall a pleasant experience, as well as not being about to put it down. The introduction of the Honored Matres, Teg's metamorphosis, yet another Duncan, the no-globe that was designed during Leto II's reign and not 30-odd years before the action of Dune.... I fondly remember these things... Let me know what you found so dusgusting, and I'll read it again.

Benwa
User ID: 8443743 Nov 23rd 5:55 PM
Heretics was a good continuation of the Dune legacy. It seems to me to be the height of arrogance to spend much time at all criticizing FH's writings. It was his universe and his story and if he chose to make some of the books more entertaining and others more thought-provoking, that's his call. Everytime I read them, I am challenged, provoked and reminded of how much I admire the depth of his creation.

Admin
User ID: 1363014 Nov 24th 7:37 PM
I actually found Dune Heretics to be, arguably, my favorite Dune book after the original. I did find God Emperor slow, but I really enjoyed Dune Herectics.

Jack
User ID: 9426023 Nov 26th 4:19 PM
Is it just me, or was Duncan Idaho a very 2 dimensional character? His presence in the original Dune was just right, he was afterall a secondary character who dies (hurray) saving Paul's life from the Sardauker. In DM, his presence is ok since he isn't really Duncan until the end, and even that is pretty interesting.
Children and God Emperor were both interesting, the former more so than the latter, but Heretics is dire (in my opinion) from the word go.
We see yet another (sigh) Duncan, a character who has less detail in his personality than his portrayal in HA. The Bene Gesserit are here in force, and since they are(as frequently described by persons in the books) a force that works in the shadows, their "Hey, look at us" stance here seems out of place. They were fine in the first few books, their involvment kept down to the essentials, but here we are left to linger in their culture.
The whole thing about the sandworms being controlled by that girl is just silly and very dull. And for the same reason I don't love God Emp, all the main characters are dead. They occasional reference to them that seems solely to confirm that it is infact part of the Dune sequence and not any sci-fi book written by someone experimenting with a type writer.
In my opinion, everything after God Emp is akin to everything after Rambo: First blood or Alien3.
The themes, left deiliberately in the background, allowing you to imagine detail about them, are brought forward and exploited to their full. The series has simply gone too far at this point.

Gunnar
User ID: 0485244 Nov 28th 4:59 PM
I am a Dune fanatic and a Star Wars fan. Compared to the rubbish Star Wars prequel, HA was a relief. While lacking the depth of the original series, I enjoyed it very much and we should be grateful to BH and KJA. I'm certainly looking forward to the other 2 prequels, and even more to the long-awaited book 7. Still, I as one of you said earlier, the authors try to cover too much topics (Ix and the BT could have been introduced later). And the only 'new' topics they introduce are really dull and irrelevant for the real series: the new transmission technology and Vernius' guerilla war.
I also find it hard to believe how an empire can remain static for 10,000 years (since the Corrin wars) and be ruled by the same dynasty and with the same feudal system. And how could the Atreides forefather Agamemnon have lived only 12000 years ago? That was around 400 BC our time, so the year 10154 Corrino time is really 11600 AD. That means the imperial calendar started in our 16th century. From my history lessons I don't recall a Butler family waging a war against machines back then.
Still there's lot's of exciting stuff to be expected in the next prequels: for example, how and why Rhombour changes his name to Gurney Halleck (my guess...)

The Boze
User ID: 0331974 Nov 28th 11:08 PM
I finished reading House Atreides about an hour ago and thought I'd get on the Internet to see what other readers thought about it. After reading many of the messages posted here, I am amazed at how many people expected this book to be just like the six existing Dune novels. I had it settled in my mind, even before I turned the first page, that this book would be quite different in style than those Frank Herbert wrote. I then proceeded to read and enjoy House Atreides. And enjoy it I did!

In my opinion, nobody will ever come close to writing like Frank Herbert did. So why should anyone try? Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson remained true to their own style of writing, and I applaud them for that.

Looking forward to House Harkonnen!

Gene
User ID: 9161143 Dec 1st 11:48 AM
Can everyone tell me why they thought was so "dire" about Heretics? I'm halfway through it so i haven't decided yet.............

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Admin User ID: 7873223	Oct 5th 7:42 PM Please post your comments and feedback on the new Dune House Atreides novel here.
Sir Zukka. User ID: 9426023	Nov 6th 11:40 AM House Ateides is quite good in my opinion, but certainly not as good as the original Dune. I find the writing style to be easy to read without occasionally falling into "profound-nonsense" as FH's did. But no matter what you may think, HA is by no means the worst Dune book written so far. It does, unfortunately, remain under the mistaken impression that Duncan Idaho is an interesting character. The Dune series so far: Dune: superb and un beaten. Great style and alot of important events happening. Dune Messiah: What was the point? Very bland story with nothing really happening with the exception of Paul's death (hurray!) CHildren of Dune: the 2nd best. Great story and detail, politics (which i love in the dune books) and the merging of my two favourite characters, those being Alia and the Baron. God Emperor of Dune: barely readable, minimal deatil, action lacking in excitement, huge anti-climax and the dullest ever character to be devised in anything: Leto II Heretics of Dune: yet more "concept" writing with more hollow characters and the king of them all, Duncan Idaho, who...just..will..not..die. Chapterhouse: Dune: Duller than an inflight magazine produced by Air Belgium. So before you critise HA, be thankful that it actually has a plot and some good moments, unlike the ones i mentioned above.
breetah User ID: 9259363	Nov 7th 12:52 PM I can accept that this is KJA and BH's project. As I said I enjoyed the story, I just missed FH prose... that said: I'll be buying the rest of the books as they come out... right now I'll take Dune in almost anyway that I can get it... :)
Chris User ID: 1460434	Nov 7th 9:36 PM First of all; to Steve and to Ellison; Could you guys trade e-mail addresses or IRC numbers and continue this debate in some other forum? Having said that; I read and enjoyed House Atreides. True, I do believe that it was, perhaps, not quite up to the par of what Frank Herbert wrote in the original six books; but then, nothing ever would be. Frank Herbert is dead; long live Frank Herbert, long live Dune. In both of their very interesting afterwords; both Anderson and Herbert had interesting things to say about how they envisioned Dune to continue, based on what had come before. There were things that were, perhaps, a little contrived; I heard some mention of Star Trek IV, some mention of other works; well, what can you do? There are always going to be detractors who are going to have a go at what is presented for whatever reason. I have a feeling that if Frank Herbert were alive today and if he had written House Atreides and if it had been identical, then there would be no such detractions. Why? Because Frank Herbert WROTE THE BOOK. Alas, dear friends, this is not to be. I read House Atreides in a little under a week; then went on to re-read the original trilogy once more. Admittedly, there were a few glitches here and there; the whole thing (in my mind) seemed to keep fairly coherent. The only thing I really noticed that was potentially an error, was this; In Dune, when Duncan Idaho is brought before the Lady Jessica, he speaks about having first being 'bloodied on Grumman.' How he killed a Harkonnen for the duke. There was no reference to this; but it is well possible that Herbert and Anderson will address this in either 'House Harkonnen' or elsewhere. As to the whole matter of how Pardot Kynes came to Arrakis, hooked up with the Fremen and so on; If anyone goes back and re-reads the appendix to the original book 'The ecology of dune'; then they will find that it is fairly verbatim. On the matter of how Mohiam conceived Jessica (and the earlier child); while it isn't exactly how Paul said it to Jessica - "in his youth, the baron sampled many pleasures, he even once allowed himself to be seduced by one of you (Bene Geserit)"; It still fits in with the general consensus that a) the baron copulated with a Bene Geserit, and b) that it was Mohiam. So, in closing; be open minded on House Atreides and lenient on BH and KJA. They did a pretty good job. What would you prefer? a book that many don't like because it wasn't written by Frank Herbert and may have contradicted some points that came from the Dune Encyclopedia (a book that has NEVER been recognised as canon)? or there having been no more Dune books at all? That's what I thought. Thank you.
E User ID: 7900703	Nov 8th 9:04 AM GAB and The Tuck Actually, I thought House Atreides was a very eye-opening, and fabricating to the Dune series. I can not wait until House Harkonnen, Spice Wars or( House corrino). One question does arose my curiousity? Will there be a seventh book.
E User ID: 7900703	Nov 8th 9:04 AM GAB and The Tuck Actually, I thought House Atreides was a very eye-opening, and fabricating to the Dune series. I can not wait until House Harkonnen, Spice Wars or( House corrino). One question does arose my curiousity? Will there be a seventh book.
E User ID: 7900703	Nov 8th 9:05 AM GAB and The Tuck Actually, I thought House Atreides was a very eye-opening, and fabricating to the Dune series. I can not wait until House Harkonnen, Spice Wars or( House corrino). One question does arose my curiousity? Will there be a seventh book.
Leto User ID: 9426023	Nov 8th 2:02 PM Good thing you posted that 3 times E, i had a sudden bout of momentary blindness, that, without your kindness and consideration, would have left me blissfully unaware of what your message was.
EELLISON User ID: 0150524	Nov 9th 3:50 PM CHRIS I thought the book was quite eye opening. It is well written book.
SteveP User ID: 1557854	Nov 11th 10:51 PM A couple of things, folks: 1) I'm sorry, but Mohiam cannot be Jessica's mother, for the simple fact that Jessica's mother was Tanidia Nerus. In CoD, Leto II reveals this to Jessica, siting B.G. Breeding Records. Note to KJA and Brian: Read the existing books BEFORE writing new ones. 2) Dune Messiah had a very definite point: It told the story of Paul's fall from power. It was the complement to Dune. In Dune Messiah, you'll recall that a BT (Scytale, IIRC) says that the BT created a KH once, and it destroyed itseld rather than become what it opposed. Paul knew that to truly save mankind he would have to become a tyrant, stealing the reigns of humanity as he steered them onto the Golden Path. He could not cope with the fact that he would be remembered as evil and corrupt, and (in a cowardly manner, IMHO) ran off into the desert as soon as he realized his son would do his job for him. Yes, Dune Messiah was a little dry to people who are reading this series for action, but for those of us who appreciate the pure literary value of the Dune Chronicles, Dune Messiah is an integral part of an epic tale.
SteveP User ID: 1557854	Nov 11th 11:08 PM It has occured to me that I've not really made my stance on House Atreides clear; I've mostly just bitched. I read the Dune Chronicles, and continue to read them, for their literary merit. Frank's work is literary, it has depth, it requires digestion to truly understand and appreciate the numerous facets of Frank's awesome work. I've read the series more times than I can remember, and with each reread, more of Frank's vision is revealed to me. I like the Dune Chronicles because I have to dig for details and meaning, not in spite of it. I love Frank's work for its subtlety. House Atreides is about as subtle as a kick to the crotch. There's nothing for me to digest in this book, nothing for me to mull over. Everything is there in front of me. To me, this is nor fun reading. If I want an author to hold my hand through a book and leave nothing at all to the imagination, well, I'd watch TV. The blatent contradictions are annoying, too, but I've said enough about those.
Jack User ID: 9426023	Nov 13th 10:07 AM About Dune Messiah: There's little actually wrong with it, i understand that its a necessary step in the Dune series, my point however, is this. There isn't enough in the book to make it a stand-alone, as most of the others were, since there are no major events happening, only analysis of the original and Paul having a bout of self-pity. It should have been part of Children of Dune instead of being by itself, as in that book it would have made more sense and actually had an ending instead of just a long meander to nowhere. About House Atreides: It's not as detailed as the others, but be thankful its not Heretics, which was so dire that words can not express it fully. Despite lack of detail, it has multiple plots and some good dialogue along with, brace yourself, some actual and intriging events (an emperor once again conspiring against a great house, Paulus dieing etc.) unlike the afformentioned DM and Heretics.
Tyler User ID: 9670323	Nov 15th 11:04 AM I'm about 3/4 of the way through House Atreides, and it looks like my findings agree with most - Not up to par with the master (Herbert), but none the less, new Dune material. Actually, I've got a question for a knowledgeable Dune fan. I consider myself somewhat intelligent (no jokes, please), but could someone please give me their point of view on the ending of Chapterhouse??? I'd like to hear some other viewpoints. Thanks. . .
SteveP User ID: 1557854	Nov 21st 6:50 PM I thought the book (Dune Messiah) stood well enough on its own. I ended with Paul's exit, leaving the third book to start fresh with Leto and Ghanima. Can I ask what was so horrible about Heretics? It's been awhile since I've read that one, but I seem to recall a pleasant experience, as well as not being about to put it down. The introduction of the Honored Matres, Teg's metamorphosis, yet another Duncan, the no-globe that was designed during Leto II's reign and not 30-odd years before the action of Dune.... I fondly remember these things... Let me know what you found so dusgusting, and I'll read it again.
Benwa User ID: 8443743	Nov 23rd 5:55 PM Heretics was a good continuation of the Dune legacy. It seems to me to be the height of arrogance to spend much time at all criticizing FH's writings. It was his universe and his story and if he chose to make some of the books more entertaining and others more thought-provoking, that's his call. Everytime I read them, I am challenged, provoked and reminded of how much I admire the depth of his creation.
Admin User ID: 1363014	Nov 24th 7:37 PM I actually found Dune Heretics to be, arguably, my favorite Dune book after the original. I did find God Emperor slow, but I really enjoyed Dune Herectics.
Jack User ID: 9426023	Nov 26th 4:19 PM Is it just me, or was Duncan Idaho a very 2 dimensional character? His presence in the original Dune was just right, he was afterall a secondary character who dies (hurray) saving Paul's life from the Sardauker. In DM, his presence is ok since he isn't really Duncan until the end, and even that is pretty interesting. Children and God Emperor were both interesting, the former more so than the latter, but Heretics is dire (in my opinion) from the word go. We see yet another (sigh) Duncan, a character who has less detail in his personality than his portrayal in HA. The Bene Gesserit are here in force, and since they are(as frequently described by persons in the books) a force that works in the shadows, their "Hey, look at us" stance here seems out of place. They were fine in the first few books, their involvment kept down to the essentials, but here we are left to linger in their culture. The whole thing about the sandworms being controlled by that girl is just silly and very dull. And for the same reason I don't love God Emp, all the main characters are dead. They occasional reference to them that seems solely to confirm that it is infact part of the Dune sequence and not any sci-fi book written by someone experimenting with a type writer. In my opinion, everything after God Emp is akin to everything after Rambo: First blood or Alien3. The themes, left deiliberately in the background, allowing you to imagine detail about them, are brought forward and exploited to their full. The series has simply gone too far at this point.
Gunnar User ID: 0485244	Nov 28th 4:59 PM I am a Dune fanatic and a Star Wars fan. Compared to the rubbish Star Wars prequel, HA was a relief. While lacking the depth of the original series, I enjoyed it very much and we should be grateful to BH and KJA. I'm certainly looking forward to the other 2 prequels, and even more to the long-awaited book 7. Still, I as one of you said earlier, the authors try to cover too much topics (Ix and the BT could have been introduced later). And the only 'new' topics they introduce are really dull and irrelevant for the real series: the new transmission technology and Vernius' guerilla war. I also find it hard to believe how an empire can remain static for 10,000 years (since the Corrin wars) and be ruled by the same dynasty and with the same feudal system. And how could the Atreides forefather Agamemnon have lived only 12000 years ago? That was around 400 BC our time, so the year 10154 Corrino time is really 11600 AD. That means the imperial calendar started in our 16th century. From my history lessons I don't recall a Butler family waging a war against machines back then. Still there's lot's of exciting stuff to be expected in the next prequels: for example, how and why Rhombour changes his name to Gurney Halleck (my guess...)
The Boze User ID: 0331974	Nov 28th 11:08 PM I finished reading House Atreides about an hour ago and thought I'd get on the Internet to see what other readers thought about it. After reading many of the messages posted here, I am amazed at how many people expected this book to be just like the six existing Dune novels. I had it settled in my mind, even before I turned the first page, that this book would be quite different in style than those Frank Herbert wrote. I then proceeded to read and enjoy House Atreides. And enjoy it I did! In my opinion, nobody will ever come close to writing like Frank Herbert did. So why should anyone try? Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson remained true to their own style of writing, and I applaud them for that. Looking forward to House Harkonnen!
Gene User ID: 9161143	Dec 1st 11:48 AM Can everyone tell me why they thought was so "dire" about Heretics? I'm halfway through it so i haven't decided yet.............