Dune House Atreides

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Dune House Atreides / Comments on Dune: House Atreides / no-ships

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Rob
User ID: 0701364 Jul 13th 1:42 AM
After finished reading House Atreides I started to re-read the original Dune books. Yesterday I finished Heretics Of Dune and something caught my attention. In the second to last chapter FH writes: "The no-ship sat there creaking, a glistening steely ball whose presence could be detected by the eyes and ears but not by any prescient or long-range instrument."

Now here is my problem: If a no-ship can be seen and heard, how could a no-ship possibly hide underneath Leto's ship in HA? Have I misunderstood something or are there any one out there who also have a problem with this?

Tar
User ID: 0701364 Jul 13th 8:15 AM
Hmmmm...

Jamal
User ID: 0665994 Jul 13th 5:50 PM
I juste finished reading HA, and I read all the Dune's books. I enjoyed HA but found couple of things that made me go "ouch", No Ships being nivsible was on of the. Hyperspace communications invented by a ghost was another.

Ending Dream 23
User ID: 0345364 Jul 14th 10:32 PM
Addressing Rob... the No-ship you refer to was not running at 100% In order to keeping the thing planet bound required an enormous amount of power. The No-ship wasn't running completely. Thus only the functions that kept it off of sensors where in use.

OAN: Dose anyone else think that the No-ship in HA must have been a lesser version. One, I'd think, not capable of hiding itself from an oracle?

malky
User ID: 3173504 Jul 27th 2:18 PM
How did you come to that conclusion? Thats like the thing about your pants being made in prehistoric times. I dont think that no-ships are invisible to eyes or ears, just prescient people and long range scanners.

Ending Dream 23
User ID: 0345364 Jul 27th 7:43 PM
Ahh... but there you are wrong. The fact that a No-ship can become invisible is a common fact. And, OF COURSE, I didn't really mean my pants where prehistoric it was just a good illustration.

I do think that in several instances they describe No-ships, No-globes and the like as invisible. Not only do they do this in the novels but when they describe Leto's No-archive in the encyclopedia they talk about workers walking off and then disappearing as they enter the sphere.

I don't just pull the things I say out'a my ass, well most of it at least.

Robin Hau
User ID: 2421434 Sep 1st 11:59 AM
Why does anyone insist on fielding the encyclopedia as an argument ?
HA rewrote the pre-DUNE history at several crucial facts. It did never take into concern the additional information from the ency. In some points it even displayed facts just the other way round.

Ending Dreams
User ID: 0345364 Sep 1st 6:46 PM
Well some of us aren't extremely happy with House Atreides. But the encyclopedia was disproven with the last two book Frank Herbert wrote; Heretics and Chapter House. Simply stated the encyclopedia is good. Not perfect ( I find things that seem very wrong in there ) but it is good and offers a view of other VERY hard core Dune fans.

I've never based an argument on the encyclopedia entirely but the information in there is plenty good for back up data.

Margo
User ID: 1397584 Sep 2nd 8:32 AM
I agree, though (sniff) all my efforts to get a copy of the Dune Ency for myself have failed, so far:-((

Daniel
User ID: 0303694 Jun 4th 6:12 AM
Good point there Rob.
I'll have to read the section of the book again.
mmmmm
Very interesting

Robin H.
User ID: 1132714 Jun 5th 7:12 AM
Thanks. It has been a while since I posted that. In fact, I was quite surprised that I wrote something like that.
What I want to say about that topic, and what I already said, is this:
The encyclopedia doesn't fit completely. Anyway, I like the books, because they were written with love for Dune.
HA doesn't fit a bit. I don't like it because it wasn`t written with the due respect for the masterpiece of Frank Herbert.
And until anybody cn show me a quotation, where is said that no-ships are visible, I will believe they are not. (A quotation from the original books of course.) I have read all of the books at least thrice and I never bacame aware of such a statement. Furthermore, I believe that FH would not need such unsubtle means of storytelling like invisbility. Also, I see no reason, why FH should emphasize the visiblity of the ship in the above mentioned paragraph.
Hugh. ;-)

Moneo
User ID: 7852033 Apr 8th 1:16 AM
Chapterhouse Dune, Ace Edition, Page 200:

"He (Duncan) could almost feel the flow of the ship's power, this giant enclosure cut out of Time. Frictionless machinery to create a mimetic presence no instrument could distinguish from natural background. Except for now when it was on standby, shielded not from eyes but from prescience."

That makes clear it can be made invisible. The no-field in the prequels must be the same technology. You couldn't maneuver a vessle in a guild heigliner without the (prescient) guild navigator noticing, even if invisible to the eyes.

From God Emperor of Dune, Page 1:

"...there is the Storehouse itself. The repository for these Journals is an undoubted Ixian artifact of such primitive and yet marvelous construction that it is sure to throw new light on the historical epoch known as
'The Scattering'. As was to be expected, the Storehouse was invisible. [...] What has surprised our engineers, however, is the way this was done with the most rudimentary and truly primitive mechanical skills."

In the prequels, it is described that the Richese no-Field was amazingly simple in design. Just an expansion of Holzmann's theories - you just had to get the idea.

I think all this leaves no room for speculations that this may be a different sort of no-field. No discrepancy here, if you ask me... :)

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Rob User ID: 0701364	Jul 13th 1:42 AM After finished reading House Atreides I started to re-read the original Dune books. Yesterday I finished Heretics Of Dune and something caught my attention. In the second to last chapter FH writes: "The no-ship sat there creaking, a glistening steely ball whose presence could be detected by the eyes and ears but not by any prescient or long-range instrument." Now here is my problem: If a no-ship can be seen and heard, how could a no-ship possibly hide underneath Leto's ship in HA? Have I misunderstood something or are there any one out there who also have a problem with this?
Tar User ID: 0701364	Jul 13th 8:15 AM Hmmmm...
Jamal User ID: 0665994	Jul 13th 5:50 PM I juste finished reading HA, and I read all the Dune's books. I enjoyed HA but found couple of things that made me go "ouch", No Ships being nivsible was on of the. Hyperspace communications invented by a ghost was another.
Ending Dream 23 User ID: 0345364	Jul 14th 10:32 PM Addressing Rob... the No-ship you refer to was not running at 100% In order to keeping the thing planet bound required an enormous amount of power. The No-ship wasn't running completely. Thus only the functions that kept it off of sensors where in use. OAN: Dose anyone else think that the No-ship in HA must have been a lesser version. One, I'd think, not capable of hiding itself from an oracle?
malky User ID: 3173504	Jul 27th 2:18 PM How did you come to that conclusion? Thats like the thing about your pants being made in prehistoric times. I dont think that no-ships are invisible to eyes or ears, just prescient people and long range scanners.
Ending Dream 23 User ID: 0345364	Jul 27th 7:43 PM Ahh... but there you are wrong. The fact that a No-ship can become invisible is a common fact. And, OF COURSE, I didn't really mean my pants where prehistoric it was just a good illustration. I do think that in several instances they describe No-ships, No-globes and the like as invisible. Not only do they do this in the novels but when they describe Leto's No-archive in the encyclopedia they talk about workers walking off and then disappearing as they enter the sphere. I don't just pull the things I say out'a my ass, well most of it at least.
Robin Hau User ID: 2421434	Sep 1st 11:59 AM Why does anyone insist on fielding the encyclopedia as an argument ? HA rewrote the pre-DUNE history at several crucial facts. It did never take into concern the additional information from the ency. In some points it even displayed facts just the other way round.
Ending Dreams User ID: 0345364	Sep 1st 6:46 PM Well some of us aren't extremely happy with House Atreides. But the encyclopedia was disproven with the last two book Frank Herbert wrote; Heretics and Chapter House. Simply stated the encyclopedia is good. Not perfect ( I find things that seem very wrong in there ) but it is good and offers a view of other VERY hard core Dune fans. I've never based an argument on the encyclopedia entirely but the information in there is plenty good for back up data.
Margo User ID: 1397584	Sep 2nd 8:32 AM I agree, though (sniff) all my efforts to get a copy of the Dune Ency for myself have failed, so far:-((
Daniel User ID: 0303694	Jun 4th 6:12 AM Good point there Rob. I'll have to read the section of the book again. mmmmm Very interesting
Robin H. User ID: 1132714	Jun 5th 7:12 AM Thanks. It has been a while since I posted that. In fact, I was quite surprised that I wrote something like that. What I want to say about that topic, and what I already said, is this: The encyclopedia doesn't fit completely. Anyway, I like the books, because they were written with love for Dune. HA doesn't fit a bit. I don't like it because it wasn`t written with the due respect for the masterpiece of Frank Herbert. And until anybody cn show me a quotation, where is said that no-ships are visible, I will believe they are not. (A quotation from the original books of course.) I have read all of the books at least thrice and I never bacame aware of such a statement. Furthermore, I believe that FH would not need such unsubtle means of storytelling like invisbility. Also, I see no reason, why FH should emphasize the visiblity of the ship in the above mentioned paragraph. Hugh. ;-)
Moneo User ID: 7852033	Apr 8th 1:16 AM Chapterhouse Dune, Ace Edition, Page 200: "He (Duncan) could almost feel the flow of the ship's power, this giant enclosure cut out of Time. Frictionless machinery to create a mimetic presence no instrument could distinguish from natural background. Except for now when it was on standby, shielded not from eyes but from prescience." That makes clear it can be made invisible. The no-field in the prequels must be the same technology. You couldn't maneuver a vessle in a guild heigliner without the (prescient) guild navigator noticing, even if invisible to the eyes. From God Emperor of Dune, Page 1: "...there is the Storehouse itself. The repository for these Journals is an undoubted Ixian artifact of such primitive and yet marvelous construction that it is sure to throw new light on the historical epoch known as 'The Scattering'. As was to be expected, the Storehouse was invisible. [...] What has surprised our engineers, however, is the way this was done with the most rudimentary and truly primitive mechanical skills." In the prequels, it is described that the Richese no-Field was amazingly simple in design. Just an expansion of Holzmann's theories - you just had to get the idea. I think all this leaves no room for speculations that this may be a different sort of no-field. No discrepancy here, if you ask me... :)
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