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Dune House Atreides / Dune Book 7 / Opinions after you've finished the book

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Nora
Moderator
User ID: 8715613 Aug 27th 11:49 AM
Has anybody else finished Hunters of Dune?

Opinions here.

ahwoozawazal
User ID: 0617234 Aug 29th 2:21 AM
Just finished reading hunters. For now i will just talk about the plot since i certainly didn't read the book for the writing style or lack there of. I found it very interesting reading about the origin of the honored matres, i defiantly didn’t expect that or didn;t even think that was possible to occur. I did expect that enemy since it was hinted at in both the visions of Maud'dib and Leto II.

However i still have many questions that were unanswered and that i hope can be reasonably answered in the next book. One being the Golden path. Really it didn’t seem to make a difference in the survival of the human race. In fact is seem to have cause the conflict since it was the scattering and the eventual incursion of the Honored Matres that caused the old enemy to become aggressive. Also the role the gholas have to play is a bit unclear and i am convinced that none of the gholas are what the hunters seek but rather that they seek Miles or Duncan. Leto or paul may provide some answers when they are awakened i suppose.

Over all i thought that the book was good. It had great ideas for the story (thanks to the outline) but the execution was lacking. Again so much repetition of events ruins the flow of the story. The character conversations seem rather simplistic, and at times characters acted completely out of character...Teg does not ask dumb questions that have obvious answers!! And please stop with the words: "Plans within plans" or the always annoying: "Threats within threats". That is my rant and i believe that if i would not have read the prequels with their not so subtle dune 7 plot hints i would have been very surprised by some of the events. So now i hope the next book answers some of these questions.

What did everyone else think?

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 29th 10:01 AM
There they go with the circles within circles. It's probably the only thing BH learned from his dad.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 29th 2:07 PM
half way so far. Some good things, some okay things. Dont like the predicatability of who the Enemy is. Dont like what happens to Rebecca. SPOILERS!!! I find it kind of strange that Martys name derives from Martryr in association to Erasmus. Is this something FH intended or is it a clever connection by BH and KJH. Something i pondered for awhile. I like the Super Face Dancers Khrome. And I like the struggles of Murabella to merge the sisterhood. Not like FH's style but the authors state that they have no intention of trying to write like FH. However, there are good and bad things about that. Oh well, I still hope they publish FH notes for Dune 7. Does anybody know when Sandworms is supposed to come out. Put pressure on SciFi to put God Emperor of Dune into production.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 29th 2:41 PM
also my opinion that it was to be super face dancers and machines was confirmed. Moreover, whether people want to disagree or not, I firmly believe it was to be these two as the Enemy. I also firmly believe that Scytale was going to make the gholas of the past characters.It fits with Duncans ghola recreated hundreds of times. However, the way BH and KJA write about it feels akward from the way FH would have presented it. FH would have made us believe the return of the old characters by the way he wrote it. With Bh and KJA it is written sub-par. However, in regards to the Enemy and the gholas, I feel that it was planned out by FH and not BH and KJA. Why? Because FH liked to go with the theme of history repeating itself. As a history teacher myself, I find that common thread in the six FH dune books to be common. Something may be different, but enevitably things will return to the way it was before. So to me it makes sense it would be machines, because of the struggle to rid the universe of them: The Bulterian Jihad. In history, machines would come again to destroy humanity. I think thats why Leto II stopped the Ixians, becuase they were going to umleash thinking machines before the old empire was ready for what was coming and was unstoppable from happening. Humainity was not ready to fight an enemy that had grown stronger and advanced. However, the Legends series kind of took out the surprise of the machines returning and reduced it to a story that we've already been exposed to many times before. I think FH did have plans to flesh out the Bulterian Jihad but not until after Dune 7. Unfortuntly, the way BH and FJA present it, it ruins any element of surprise. What can they do in Dune 7.2 that we have not already read in the Legends series. Unless, as i suspect, the machines have taken human form. But that would be way to Battlestar Galatica for me. But then again, the Legends series reminds me of the future war in Terminator. Anyway kind of long winded. But these are my musings of Hunters and the intentions of BH. Some people will argue against these ideas and some will agree, but that is the idea. I've gained more insight into GEoD and HoD because of reading everyones interpretation of it. Thanks.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 29th 2:51 PM
By the way, memory is a little rusty. Is there ANY mention of the oracle of time in the six FH dune books? I have an opinion of the oracle / Norma but I need to see if FH had mentioned it previously. Once then I will share my thoughts and ideas about it. Thanks.

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 29th 4:58 PM
Never ever ever did Frank mention an Oracle of Time.
The only diety in the entire series was Leto II.

Rob
User ID: 3160124 Aug 29th 5:02 PM
No, I'm 99.9% sure no mention was made of any "oracle of time" in FH's original novels.

only About 1/4 way through Hunters myself, but curiosity got the better of me, so I took a few glances. Some of the stuff in there is looking a little too much like a continuation of the Legends trilogy, and less like a continuation of the "classic" Dune.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 1:35 PM
oracle of time: yeah thats kind of what i thought
another question = is there ANY mention of Norma in FH's six books?

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 30th 1:43 PM
Freazilla has a very small qoute by the God Emperor in his bag. He post it some time back in "Was Norma
a Kwisatz Haderach." We were wondering why the BG, Guild nor the KW's ever mentioned her.

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 30th 2:22 PM
It has now become obvious why Norma's children were never introduced into the BG breeding program or herself barely mentioned by Maudib and Leto II. Norma never really existed in the original Dune Universe. That's why she defies every physical law in that Universe. She is Brian's pet creation. His answer to Leto II.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:36 PM
What was the quote from God Emperor? And by the way I tend to agree with you about her. But you know look at all the possibilities to find out if their is the smallest possibility of her or oracle of time being in FH books. Not that I want to defend BH and KJA but to place it correctly. or someting like that. Trying to work and type so fogive if it sounds wrong. I like wraping my head
around these discussions but its hard to give full attention while reading

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:37 PM
i meant working, sorry

rever
User ID: 0296604 Aug 30th 4:45 PM
Norma WAS meantioned in one of the books, but it was one sentence about her(from BGs i think). There was no meantion about any oracle, and Leto was the only diety in the whole book.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:52 PM
but what was the quote, page number, I want to look it up? And what was the passage where FH names who Marty and Daniel, page number. What I thought was lame was how BH and KJA tied Marty to Martyr, Omnius's pet name of Erasmus in Legends. What did you think of that?

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 30th 4:54 PM
hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets.

rever
User ID: 7789183 Aug 31st 6:53 AM
i am not sure about norma, i haven;t read all of the books in a while, but i think its in god emperor, Oh, also last page on chapterhouse TELLS you who Daniel+marty are, BH and KJA fucked that up real nice, like they haven;t read the books. IN the last chapter of chapterhouse dune FH tells you who the enemy IS.

rever
User ID: 7789183 Aug 31st 6:59 AM
Quote from the last few pages of chapterhouse:
"Don't see why. Always whistling at us always making it necessary to stomp them down. I don;t like treating Masters that way and you know it! If it weren;t fr them..."
"They are not gods, Daniel"
"Neither are we."
"I still thnk you let them escape . You're so anxious to prune your roses!"
"What would you have said to the Master, anyways" Daniel asked.
"I was going to joke when he asked who we were. They always ask that. I was going to say 'What did you expect God Himself with a flowing beard?'"
Daniel chackled. "That would've been funny . They have such a hard time accepting that Face Dancers can be independent of them. "
"I din;t see why. It's a naturla consequence. They gave us the power to absorb the memories and experience of other people, gather enouhg of those and...."
"It's personal we take Marty."
......blah blah blah, too lazy to type an more, but u get the idea.Page 431-432 Chapterhouse dune.

kevlar7
User ID: 8938823 Aug 31st 9:40 AM
thanks Rever. I will read those pages this weekend. I want to compare the links between Hunters and Chapterhouse. Just for shits and giggles. Have a good one. Cheers.

shinnok
User ID: 0492334 Aug 31st 11:24 AM
"hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets."

Norma was not a Kwisatz Haderach. By definition, a Kwisatz Haderach is a male Bene Gesserit. Norma was neither male or BG, although, as BH depicts her, she could've founded any of the Dune schools.
Please see Dune House Atreides / Dune General / Was Norma a Kwisatz Haderach?

Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor?

Again, another major inconsistency re-viving the argument that BH ignores the original Novels and is re-writing history.

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Nora Moderator User ID: 8715613	Aug 27th 11:49 AM Has anybody else finished Hunters of Dune? Opinions here.
ahwoozawazal User ID: 0617234	Aug 29th 2:21 AM Just finished reading hunters. For now i will just talk about the plot since i certainly didn't read the book for the writing style or lack there of. I found it very interesting reading about the origin of the honored matres, i defiantly didn’t expect that or didn;t even think that was possible to occur. I did expect that enemy since it was hinted at in both the visions of Maud'dib and Leto II. However i still have many questions that were unanswered and that i hope can be reasonably answered in the next book. One being the Golden path. Really it didn’t seem to make a difference in the survival of the human race. In fact is seem to have cause the conflict since it was the scattering and the eventual incursion of the Honored Matres that caused the old enemy to become aggressive. Also the role the gholas have to play is a bit unclear and i am convinced that none of the gholas are what the hunters seek but rather that they seek Miles or Duncan. Leto or paul may provide some answers when they are awakened i suppose. Over all i thought that the book was good. It had great ideas for the story (thanks to the outline) but the execution was lacking. Again so much repetition of events ruins the flow of the story. The character conversations seem rather simplistic, and at times characters acted completely out of character...Teg does not ask dumb questions that have obvious answers!! And please stop with the words: "Plans within plans" or the always annoying: "Threats within threats". That is my rant and i believe that if i would not have read the prequels with their not so subtle dune 7 plot hints i would have been very surprised by some of the events. So now i hope the next book answers some of these questions. What did everyone else think?
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 29th 10:01 AM There they go with the circles within circles. It's probably the only thing BH learned from his dad.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 29th 2:07 PM half way so far. Some good things, some okay things. Dont like the predicatability of who the Enemy is. Dont like what happens to Rebecca. SPOILERS!!! I find it kind of strange that Martys name derives from Martryr in association to Erasmus. Is this something FH intended or is it a clever connection by BH and KJH. Something i pondered for awhile. I like the Super Face Dancers Khrome. And I like the struggles of Murabella to merge the sisterhood. Not like FH's style but the authors state that they have no intention of trying to write like FH. However, there are good and bad things about that. Oh well, I still hope they publish FH notes for Dune 7. Does anybody know when Sandworms is supposed to come out. Put pressure on SciFi to put God Emperor of Dune into production.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 29th 2:41 PM also my opinion that it was to be super face dancers and machines was confirmed. Moreover, whether people want to disagree or not, I firmly believe it was to be these two as the Enemy. I also firmly believe that Scytale was going to make the gholas of the past characters.It fits with Duncans ghola recreated hundreds of times. However, the way BH and KJA write about it feels akward from the way FH would have presented it. FH would have made us believe the return of the old characters by the way he wrote it. With Bh and KJA it is written sub-par. However, in regards to the Enemy and the gholas, I feel that it was planned out by FH and not BH and KJA. Why? Because FH liked to go with the theme of history repeating itself. As a history teacher myself, I find that common thread in the six FH dune books to be common. Something may be different, but enevitably things will return to the way it was before. So to me it makes sense it would be machines, because of the struggle to rid the universe of them: The Bulterian Jihad. In history, machines would come again to destroy humanity. I think thats why Leto II stopped the Ixians, becuase they were going to umleash thinking machines before the old empire was ready for what was coming and was unstoppable from happening. Humainity was not ready to fight an enemy that had grown stronger and advanced. However, the Legends series kind of took out the surprise of the machines returning and reduced it to a story that we've already been exposed to many times before. I think FH did have plans to flesh out the Bulterian Jihad but not until after Dune 7. Unfortuntly, the way BH and FJA present it, it ruins any element of surprise. What can they do in Dune 7.2 that we have not already read in the Legends series. Unless, as i suspect, the machines have taken human form. But that would be way to Battlestar Galatica for me. But then again, the Legends series reminds me of the future war in Terminator. Anyway kind of long winded. But these are my musings of Hunters and the intentions of BH. Some people will argue against these ideas and some will agree, but that is the idea. I've gained more insight into GEoD and HoD because of reading everyones interpretation of it. Thanks.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 29th 2:51 PM By the way, memory is a little rusty. Is there ANY mention of the oracle of time in the six FH dune books? I have an opinion of the oracle / Norma but I need to see if FH had mentioned it previously. Once then I will share my thoughts and ideas about it. Thanks.
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 29th 4:58 PM Never ever ever did Frank mention an Oracle of Time. The only diety in the entire series was Leto II.
Rob User ID: 3160124	Aug 29th 5:02 PM No, I'm 99.9% sure no mention was made of any "oracle of time" in FH's original novels. only About 1/4 way through Hunters myself, but curiosity got the better of me, so I took a few glances. Some of the stuff in there is looking a little too much like a continuation of the Legends trilogy, and less like a continuation of the "classic" Dune.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 1:35 PM oracle of time: yeah thats kind of what i thought another question = is there ANY mention of Norma in FH's six books?
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 30th 1:43 PM Freazilla has a very small qoute by the God Emperor in his bag. He post it some time back in "Was Norma a Kwisatz Haderach." We were wondering why the BG, Guild nor the KW's ever mentioned her.
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 30th 2:22 PM It has now become obvious why Norma's children were never introduced into the BG breeding program or herself barely mentioned by Maudib and Leto II. Norma never really existed in the original Dune Universe. That's why she defies every physical law in that Universe. She is Brian's pet creation. His answer to Leto II.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:36 PM What was the quote from God Emperor? And by the way I tend to agree with you about her. But you know look at all the possibilities to find out if their is the smallest possibility of her or oracle of time being in FH books. Not that I want to defend BH and KJA but to place it correctly. or someting like that. Trying to work and type so fogive if it sounds wrong. I like wraping my head around these discussions but its hard to give full attention while reading
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:37 PM i meant working, sorry
rever User ID: 0296604	Aug 30th 4:45 PM Norma WAS meantioned in one of the books, but it was one sentence about her(from BGs i think). There was no meantion about any oracle, and Leto was the only diety in the whole book.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:52 PM but what was the quote, page number, I want to look it up? And what was the passage where FH names who Marty and Daniel, page number. What I thought was lame was how BH and KJA tied Marty to Martyr, Omnius's pet name of Erasmus in Legends. What did you think of that?
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 30th 4:54 PM hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets.
rever User ID: 7789183	Aug 31st 6:53 AM i am not sure about norma, i haven;t read all of the books in a while, but i think its in god emperor, Oh, also last page on chapterhouse TELLS you who Daniel+marty are, BH and KJA fucked that up real nice, like they haven;t read the books. IN the last chapter of chapterhouse dune FH tells you who the enemy IS.
rever User ID: 7789183	Aug 31st 6:59 AM Quote from the last few pages of chapterhouse: "Don't see why. Always whistling at us always making it necessary to stomp them down. I don;t like treating Masters that way and you know it! If it weren;t fr them..." "They are not gods, Daniel" "Neither are we." "I still thnk you let them escape . You're so anxious to prune your roses!" "What would you have said to the Master, anyways" Daniel asked. "I was going to joke when he asked who we were. They always ask that. I was going to say 'What did you expect God Himself with a flowing beard?'" Daniel chackled. "That would've been funny . They have such a hard time accepting that Face Dancers can be independent of them. " "I din;t see why. It's a naturla consequence. They gave us the power to absorb the memories and experience of other people, gather enouhg of those and...." "It's personal we take Marty." ......blah blah blah, too lazy to type an more, but u get the idea.Page 431-432 Chapterhouse dune.
kevlar7 User ID: 8938823	Aug 31st 9:40 AM thanks Rever. I will read those pages this weekend. I want to compare the links between Hunters and Chapterhouse. Just for shits and giggles. Have a good one. Cheers.
shinnok User ID: 0492334	Aug 31st 11:24 AM "hey shinnok, what will really piss me off is that they bring back Leto II in Dune 7.2 and he has a touchy feely thing with the "other" KH, Norma. Can't you see that happening? I can. Place your bets." Norma was not a Kwisatz Haderach. By definition, a Kwisatz Haderach is a male Bene Gesserit. Norma was neither male or BG, although, as BH depicts her, she could've founded any of the Dune schools. Please see Dune House Atreides / Dune General / Was Norma a Kwisatz Haderach? Why didn't Leto II feel these "touchy" feelings when he was God Emperor? Again, another major inconsistency re-viving the argument that BH ignores the original Novels and is re-writing history.