C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / Cleaning Solution!?

Next 20 Messages

Steve
User ID: 1069864 Sep 25th 10:45 PM
I've just recieved my new C sax carcass to refurbish.
It's black!
Looks like it's been painted because there is so much tarnish on it!
The pads are all shot, those that are still there!
I thought I could save hours of work by dropping it in a bath of something to remove the tarnish???

I tried vinegar. Doesn't work!

Is there some kind of weak acid (readily available) that would take off the oxide and not the silver?

Any ideas appreciated!

CP2
User ID: 0255034 Sep 26th 11:05 AM
Steve.....I think it is safe to say that there probably is a chemical that will disolve silver tarnish. However, I'm note aware of what it is. I know for a fact that 'Tarn-x' brand tarnish remover will not remove the black oxide tarnish from silver saxophones.

The first C-mel I bought on e-bay was tarnished worse than the pictures revealed. I tried a few tarnish removers including Tarn-x. None were as effective as a metal polish called 'Bright Boy'. It has a slight ammonia smell to it and has a very light abrasive (far less than tooth paste). I used an old tooth brush and a lot of elbow grease. After cleaning with 'Bright Boy', I finished the process with Wright's Silver Polish which has an anti-tarnish agent in it.

If you do find a chemical that will remove the black oxide and not the silver, please let us know.

Ken
User ID: 0171704 Sep 26th 2:21 PM
Steve-When I took a tarnished Martin stencil sax I bought off eBay to my local musical instument repair store they certainly spoke of using a solution to dip the sax in. I'll try to remember to ask them what it's called next time I'm there on Friday.
I had spent hours trying to shine it up, but without stripping it down I could not clean around the springs etc, especially the sharp ends which punture the skin!
I swapped it as part payment for my 1929 Beuscher C Mel. Now I see that "Concertone" for sale at Ł625.00 which must be around $1000.

WW2
User ID: 0882114 Sep 26th 3:09 PM
Rumor has it that you can take an Aluminum tub and fill it with a mixture of warm water and baking soda. When the sax is placed in the solution and touching the Aluminum a chemical reaction takes place that remove the silver-oxide. If you do not have an Aluminum tub, you can try placing the sax on a sheet of Aluminum foil in the solution. Beware, this will destroy you pads. After this bath is complete make sure to thoroughly dry the sax and OIL all the springs, rods, and screws so that you don't get a rusty but shiny sax.

I have never done this so I do not know if it will work or not. But, in you situation, you really have nothing to lose.

Also, beware of silver polishes. Most contain abrasives that can remove the silver plate if you get too aggressive!

SelmerSaxMan
User ID: 8645673 Sep 27th 1:32 AM
yeah, that works very good - I boil aluminum foil strips though and add the soda to that.

But first, clean it really good with soap and water, then do that - there is probably more than tarnish there.

steve
User ID: 1069864 Sep 27th 3:54 AM
Thanks,
I'll try the baking soda and ally trick!

I tried a little Amway metal polish and it worked really well but is not recomended for bright finishes and would take me about 2 weeks!

I have nothing to lose with only half the pads and springs still present!

Steve
User ID: 1069864 Sep 29th 9:33 PM
Have the neck sitting in warm water and baking soda now!
It's done something but...

Might try ammonia next!

Steve
User ID: 1069864 Sep 30th 8:18 AM
Warning!!!!
Do NOT try ammonia to clean silver!
It made the whole thing black, including the shiny bits! And rusted the screws!

I found the real recipe!
Warm water, aluminium foil and SALT!
Apparently the salt aids the reaction of the electrons between the Al and silver Oxide.
My neck is now grey!

CP2
User ID: 6667823 Sep 30th 9:06 AM
Steve.....Thanks for the warning about ammonia. As to the warm water, aluminium foil and salt----what are the quantities of each in your solution?

saxdevil
User ID: 9788223 Sep 30th 12:58 PM
From chemist point of view:
Always use alumina foil and any kind salt, it does not matter whether soda, real salt, as you need this for reduction of the silver oxide, as onyl water and silver/ alu will not work!!!
Ammonia: this will form black silver ammopnium salt!!!

Steve
User ID: 1069864 Oct 2nd 2:02 AM
I've just done the neck so far!
The body will have to wait till next month.

I used an old aluminium pot with about half a gallon of water(warm/hot) And put a strip of foil in for good measure 6x4 inches
And a table spoonfull of salt.

I think the soda works too but the ordinary salt was better.
Perhaps also the foil helped as the pot was maybe too old !

Still have to give it a polish but at least we have a good starting point!

Sir Edmund KT
User ID: 1516194 Oct 2nd 10:27 AM
Our valet uses the same method for cleaning the silverware. He adds a few strips of bacofoil to a bowl of warm brime, plonks in the silver and after a while, hey presto, bright shiny cutlery and plate, just rinse in clean water and dry. Top Hole(%-}

Ken
User ID: 0171704 Oct 18th 5:27 PM
Goddards Silver Dip. (expensive) The repair shop had a chemist make up gallons of the stuff of a similar naure to dip the sax into, so they say.

steve
User ID: 1069864 Oct 18th 10:24 PM
I had the sax body in the bath for several hours with salt and al foil to no avail.

Seems like the al foil must touch every part that needs cleaning. Nearly impossible around the key work mechanism.
The rods on the outside cleaned up but not the keys or body.
Sigh!
Back to polish!

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Oct 19th 9:11 AM
Handclean and polish is better in the long run - lets you find all the little problems, loose springs etc. And you'll have to hand polish anyway after any kind of chemical bath or clean.

DeanoTheSaxman
User ID: 7552673 Oct 19th 4:09 PM
Agree whole heartedly with Alan, although the sore fingers from stabbing them on the springs rather gets on my T***, anyone got any bright ideas about protecting my pinkies??????

Ralph
User ID: 7949453 Oct 19th 4:41 PM
Just remove the springs and put them in a wooden block drilled and marked for the springs. Or you can try to put cork on the ends. Removal is the safest way to clean and polish without getting stabbed in my opinion.

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Oct 20th 7:33 AM
In most cases the needle springs run parallel with the pivot rods, so remove all the keys and replace the pivot rods - they tend to act as a great guard and visual warning that a spring is (to quote politicians) 'a real and present danger...". Especially to us blind old gits.

For 'belt and braces' add a small length of insulation tape around the tip of the spring and the respective pivot rod. Or a piece of plastic tubing (part of one of those slim 'carton drink' straws) threaded down over the spring(s) in the area you're cleaning... Recycling at its best.

DeanoTheSaxman
User ID: 9711993 Oct 20th 7:40 AM
Nice one guy's, thanks alot.

Jim B
User ID: 9781133 Oct 20th 10:48 AM
I use cheap Chrome polish used for cars. I apply it with a Q tip and let it sit. In removing the stuff I DO NOT RUB. The stuff is abrasive but it does eat off the corrosion.

Next 20 Messages

Steve User ID: 1069864	Sep 25th 10:45 PM I've just recieved my new C sax carcass to refurbish. It's black! Looks like it's been painted because there is so much tarnish on it! The pads are all shot, those that are still there! I thought I could save hours of work by dropping it in a bath of something to remove the tarnish??? I tried vinegar. Doesn't work! Is there some kind of weak acid (readily available) that would take off the oxide and not the silver? Any ideas appreciated!
CP2 User ID: 0255034	Sep 26th 11:05 AM Steve.....I think it is safe to say that there probably is a chemical that will disolve silver tarnish. However, I'm note aware of what it is. I know for a fact that 'Tarn-x' brand tarnish remover will not remove the black oxide tarnish from silver saxophones. The first C-mel I bought on e-bay was tarnished worse than the pictures revealed. I tried a few tarnish removers including Tarn-x. None were as effective as a metal polish called 'Bright Boy'. It has a slight ammonia smell to it and has a very light abrasive (far less than tooth paste). I used an old tooth brush and a lot of elbow grease. After cleaning with 'Bright Boy', I finished the process with Wright's Silver Polish which has an anti-tarnish agent in it. If you do find a chemical that will remove the black oxide and not the silver, please let us know.
Ken User ID: 0171704	Sep 26th 2:21 PM Steve-When I took a tarnished Martin stencil sax I bought off eBay to my local musical instument repair store they certainly spoke of using a solution to dip the sax in. I'll try to remember to ask them what it's called next time I'm there on Friday. I had spent hours trying to shine it up, but without stripping it down I could not clean around the springs etc, especially the sharp ends which punture the skin! I swapped it as part payment for my 1929 Beuscher C Mel. Now I see that "Concertone" for sale at Ł625.00 which must be around $1000.
WW2 User ID: 0882114	Sep 26th 3:09 PM Rumor has it that you can take an Aluminum tub and fill it with a mixture of warm water and baking soda. When the sax is placed in the solution and touching the Aluminum a chemical reaction takes place that remove the silver-oxide. If you do not have an Aluminum tub, you can try placing the sax on a sheet of Aluminum foil in the solution. Beware, this will destroy you pads. After this bath is complete make sure to thoroughly dry the sax and OIL all the springs, rods, and screws so that you don't get a rusty but shiny sax. I have never done this so I do not know if it will work or not. But, in you situation, you really have nothing to lose. Also, beware of silver polishes. Most contain abrasives that can remove the silver plate if you get too aggressive!
SelmerSaxMan User ID: 8645673	Sep 27th 1:32 AM yeah, that works very good - I boil aluminum foil strips though and add the soda to that. But first, clean it really good with soap and water, then do that - there is probably more than tarnish there.
steve User ID: 1069864	Sep 27th 3:54 AM Thanks, I'll try the baking soda and ally trick! I tried a little Amway metal polish and it worked really well but is not recomended for bright finishes and would take me about 2 weeks! I have nothing to lose with only half the pads and springs still present!
Steve User ID: 1069864	Sep 29th 9:33 PM Have the neck sitting in warm water and baking soda now! It's done something but... Might try ammonia next!
Steve User ID: 1069864	Sep 30th 8:18 AM Warning!!!! Do NOT try ammonia to clean silver! It made the whole thing black, including the shiny bits! And rusted the screws! I found the real recipe! Warm water, aluminium foil and SALT! Apparently the salt aids the reaction of the electrons between the Al and silver Oxide. My neck is now grey!
CP2 User ID: 6667823	Sep 30th 9:06 AM Steve.....Thanks for the warning about ammonia. As to the warm water, aluminium foil and salt----what are the quantities of each in your solution?
saxdevil User ID: 9788223	Sep 30th 12:58 PM From chemist point of view: Always use alumina foil and any kind salt, it does not matter whether soda, real salt, as you need this for reduction of the silver oxide, as onyl water and silver/ alu will not work!!! Ammonia: this will form black silver ammopnium salt!!!
Steve User ID: 1069864	Oct 2nd 2:02 AM I've just done the neck so far! The body will have to wait till next month. I used an old aluminium pot with about half a gallon of water(warm/hot) And put a strip of foil in for good measure 6x4 inches And a table spoonfull of salt. I think the soda works too but the ordinary salt was better. Perhaps also the foil helped as the pot was maybe too old ! Still have to give it a polish but at least we have a good starting point!
Sir Edmund KT User ID: 1516194	Oct 2nd 10:27 AM Our valet uses the same method for cleaning the silverware. He adds a few strips of bacofoil to a bowl of warm brime, plonks in the silver and after a while, hey presto, bright shiny cutlery and plate, just rinse in clean water and dry. Top Hole(%-}
Ken User ID: 0171704	Oct 18th 5:27 PM Goddards Silver Dip. (expensive) The repair shop had a chemist make up gallons of the stuff of a similar naure to dip the sax into, so they say.
steve User ID: 1069864	Oct 18th 10:24 PM I had the sax body in the bath for several hours with salt and al foil to no avail. Seems like the al foil must touch every part that needs cleaning. Nearly impossible around the key work mechanism. The rods on the outside cleaned up but not the keys or body. Sigh! Back to polish!
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Oct 19th 9:11 AM Handclean and polish is better in the long run - lets you find all the little problems, loose springs etc. And you'll have to hand polish anyway after any kind of chemical bath or clean.
DeanoTheSaxman User ID: 7552673	Oct 19th 4:09 PM Agree whole heartedly with Alan, although the sore fingers from stabbing them on the springs rather gets on my T, anyone got any bright ideas about protecting my pinkies??????*
Ralph User ID: 7949453	Oct 19th 4:41 PM Just remove the springs and put them in a wooden block drilled and marked for the springs. Or you can try to put cork on the ends. Removal is the safest way to clean and polish without getting stabbed in my opinion.
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Oct 20th 7:33 AM In most cases the needle springs run parallel with the pivot rods, so remove all the keys and replace the pivot rods - they tend to act as a great guard and visual warning that a spring is (to quote politicians) 'a real and present danger...". Especially to us blind old gits. For 'belt and braces' add a small length of insulation tape around the tip of the spring and the respective pivot rod. Or a piece of plastic tubing (part of one of those slim 'carton drink' straws) threaded down over the spring(s) in the area you're cleaning... Recycling at its best.
DeanoTheSaxman User ID: 9711993	Oct 20th 7:40 AM Nice one guy's, thanks alot.
Jim B User ID: 9781133	Oct 20th 10:48 AM I use cheap Chrome polish used for cars. I apply it with a Q tip and let it sit. In removing the stuff I DO NOT RUB. The stuff is abrasive but it does eat off the corrosion.