C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / Overhauling!

WW2
User ID: 1585334 Oct 5th 11:25 AM
With all the "extreme makeover" programs on television, I thought it would be a good idea to run a series of articles on a complete overhaul done by a FIRST TIMER! Talk about your extreme makeovers!

So, in the coming months I will add a sub-site to the C-Melody.com website that features my misadventures in doing a first time overhaul.

With the help of all the experts on this forum, I believe I can make a go of it. This will be a complete overhaul of not just the saxophone, but a rebuilding of the case as well! I know I can get a great case from DEG for about a hundred bucks, but I want to build a wooden case as a prototype for building cases for my baritone and bass Saxes. The bass case would cost over a thousand bucks from Walt Johnson cases, so I think I will try to build one myself.

So, wish me luck on my foolhardy adventure and feel free to give me copious amounts of advice along the way (starting now)!

Pau l(UK)
User ID: 7545583 Oct 6th 2:35 PM
I shall be w
tching with great interest as I have a Conn stencil, Kalashan, stripped down and ready for repadding etc. Like you it will be a first so hopefully I will be able to learn with you.

WW2
User ID: 1585334 Oct 10th 4:36 PM
Paul, you are WAY ahead of me down this road. Hopefully I will be able to trade stories with you on this forum and everyone can learn.

Meanwhile, I have chosen my victim... er, candidate! So, hopefully, I will put the first of a long series of pages up soon (in a week or two I hope).

Jim B
User ID: 9454293 Oct 10th 7:04 PM
Before you start,have you decided how to proceed? Usually the repairman takes all the old pads off and lays them all out. I have found that replacing one pad at a time works well; that way the pad heights on the new pad are the same as the old (with the assumption that the heights of the old pads were correct to begin with. Also on some keys that activate more than on pad, replacing one pad made the job easier. When all the pads are on and they seal, then I took off all the keys for a good cleaning and some new corks.Of course if the old pads are rotted, then taking them all off might be the way to go.In a book of instrument repair at the local university library, pad hights of the alto are given.

WW2
User ID: 1585334 Oct 11th 1:05 PM
Thanks Jim. At the moment I am researching the various methods and order of steps used in overhauls. The candidate horn(s) I will be using have really old, possibly original 1920's pads or are missing pads. So the first order of business is to generate a plan. The basic plan and order so far is:

1. Select Candidate horns.

2. Prepare a work area. Having a good work area will make the difference between a somewhat pleasant job and a miserable job. Good lighting and plenty of work space are essential. Parts and tools must be well organized and within easy reach. This is an area where most amateurs fail. Not enough can be said of a proper work area. Working on the floor is dirty and uncomfortable. Having to put everything away will be a waste of time for each session, so the work area should be secure enough to leave everything at a reasonable stopping point, and being assured that all will be well when I return to the tasks at hand.

3. Make a thorough inspection of the horn(s) without disassembly. I will make copious notes and take lots of pictures for later reference. Although it will not be stated below, the case will be included as part of the overhaul. I intend to build my own case. The reason I will build my own case is that I have a baritone saxophone and a bass saxophone that need cases. The cases for these big horns are quite expensive and have very long lead times when ordered. I can potentially save nearly US$2,000 by building my own cases for the big horns. This is an opportunity to try a couple of ideas on a smaller scale with this overhaul. If this were the only horn needing a case, I would skip this step and buy a DEG case as their cases are quite nice for C-Melody saxophones.

4. Decide if the horn is in need of a minor overhaul or needs major work. Minor work will be pad and spring replacement, cork and felt replacements, regulation, etc. Major work would include dent repair, body tube straightening, any post or tonehole soldering, etc. Since this is a first attempt, any major work required will be a reason to reject the horn for this attempt. Perhaps later, when I am more experienced and brave, I will attempt a major overhaul.

5. Disassembly and inspection. Again copious notes will be taken for later reference. Lots of pictures will be taken to assist in reassembly. Organization will be the key here! Proper organization of the removed parts will ensure a better chance of getting it all back together when the time comes. Each part will be inspected and notes made of any needed repairs or replacements.

6. CLEAN everything inside and out! My daddy taught me that the key to a great overhaul of an automobile engine is to CLEAN everything inside and out! Certainly this is true for a saxophone as well. Then, when all is clean make sure you…

7. CLEAN everything inside and out! Now that everything is really clean you can proceed to the next step, which is…

8. CLEAN everything inside and out! You get the picture.

9. Now, each of the noted repairs will be done. This will be done one piece at a time. Like the proverb that asks “How do you eat an elephant?” with the answer being “One bite at a time!” The saxophone equivalent might be “How do you overhaul a saxophone?” The obvious answer is “One key at a time!”

10. Once all the individual parts are overhauled, it is time to….

11. CLEAN everything inside and out! Then, when all is clean make sure you…

12. CLEAN everything inside and out! Now that everything is really clean you can proceed to the next step, which is…

13. CLEAN everything inside and out! Now that the parts are truly clean, you should…

14. CLEAN all of your TOOLS as well as your clothes and your HANDS for the reassembly. You know the routine: lather, rinse, and repeat!

15. Finally, it is time for reassembly. As each item is put back on to the saxophone body, it will be oiled, greased, waterproofed, or polished as appropriate.

16. Almost there, now the REAL fun begins! It is time to deleak the horn, again one pad at a time. This is a long and tiring process, but time spent here will make the difference between a failed overhaul and a successful overhaul.

17. Now that the horn has no leaks, it is time for regulation! About this time I expect to be ready for retirement.

As you can see, this will be quite a process and if I dedicate one page to each of the steps it will end up as quite a sub-website to this site.

I will try to include information about each step. Where the information is redundant with other sites I will reference the sites rather than repeating the information. I expect that by the time it is finished people will come to one of two conclusions. Either they will realize that the prices charged for overhauls are well worth the amount of work involved, or they will decide that they can do their own minor overhaul!

And so, the adventure begins!

Jim B
User ID: 9454293 Oct 11th 8:39 PM
So the instrument you have chosen is an alto,tenor or what?

Paul (UK)
User ID: 7545583 Oct 12th 5:11 AM
My Kalashan looks as if it was overhauled it the not to distant pass and the corks and bumper felts are all in fairly good condition. Unfortunately the pads used were of the wrong size and thickness in many cases, the low C, B & Bb pads are so thin they are actually rece
sed. So far the horn is stripped with each set of keys kept in a seperate draw, ie upper stack etc, and the rods left in situ. I am currently cleaning the body and each key/cup individually and using replating formula as necessary, I will then measure each cup and order pads, and a couple of tools, from music-medic. I haven't decided on pads yet but am leaning towards roos with noyek resonators, but would be very grateful for any advice/observations. My main area of concern is getting the pad heights correct and advice here would be very welcome. I see this as very much a long term project and my intention is to get it right not do it quickly.

WW2
User ID: 1585334 Oct 13th 12:36 PM
Jim B - I am going to overhaul a C-Melody of course!

Paul (UK) - you are ahead of me in this area. I was thinking of trying Jum Schmidt's new pads, but this is only a thought. I also like the black roo pads. As for resonators, I am thinking I want Gold plated ones, since I intend to end up with a Satin-Silver body and Gold-Plated keys. Other than that, the resonators need to be as big as possible.

Like you I consider this a long term project and want to do it right rather than quickly.

All repair technicians on this site - How about letting us hear your 2 cents worth?

WW2 User ID: 1585334	Oct 5th 11:25 AM With all the "extreme makeover" programs on television, I thought it would be a good idea to run a series of articles on a complete overhaul done by a FIRST TIMER! Talk about your extreme makeovers! So, in the coming months I will add a sub-site to the C-Melody.com website that features my misadventures in doing a first time overhaul. With the help of all the experts on this forum, I believe I can make a go of it. This will be a complete overhaul of not just the saxophone, but a rebuilding of the case as well! I know I can get a great case from DEG for about a hundred bucks, but I want to build a wooden case as a prototype for building cases for my baritone and bass Saxes. The bass case would cost over a thousand bucks from Walt Johnson cases, so I think I will try to build one myself. So, wish me luck on my foolhardy adventure and feel free to give me copious amounts of advice along the way (starting now)!
Pau l(UK) User ID: 7545583	Oct 6th 2:35 PM I shall be w tching with great interest as I have a Conn stencil, Kalashan, stripped down and ready for repadding etc. Like you it will be a first so hopefully I will be able to learn with you.
WW2 User ID: 1585334	Oct 10th 4:36 PM Paul, you are WAY ahead of me down this road. Hopefully I will be able to trade stories with you on this forum and everyone can learn. Meanwhile, I have chosen my victim... er, candidate! So, hopefully, I will put the first of a long series of pages up soon (in a week or two I hope).
Jim B User ID: 9454293	Oct 10th 7:04 PM Before you start,have you decided how to proceed? Usually the repairman takes all the old pads off and lays them all out. I have found that replacing one pad at a time works well; that way the pad heights on the new pad are the same as the old (with the assumption that the heights of the old pads were correct to begin with. Also on some keys that activate more than on pad, replacing one pad made the job easier. When all the pads are on and they seal, then I took off all the keys for a good cleaning and some new corks.Of course if the old pads are rotted, then taking them all off might be the way to go.In a book of instrument repair at the local university library, pad hights of the alto are given.
WW2 User ID: 1585334	Oct 11th 1:05 PM Thanks Jim. At the moment I am researching the various methods and order of steps used in overhauls. The candidate horn(s) I will be using have really old, possibly original 1920's pads or are missing pads. So the first order of business is to generate a plan. The basic plan and order so far is: 1. Select Candidate horns. 2. Prepare a work area. Having a good work area will make the difference between a somewhat pleasant job and a miserable job. Good lighting and plenty of work space are essential. Parts and tools must be well organized and within easy reach. This is an area where most amateurs fail. Not enough can be said of a proper work area. Working on the floor is dirty and uncomfortable. Having to put everything away will be a waste of time for each session, so the work area should be secure enough to leave everything at a reasonable stopping point, and being assured that all will be well when I return to the tasks at hand. 3. Make a thorough inspection of the horn(s) without disassembly. I will make copious notes and take lots of pictures for later reference. Although it will not be stated below, the case will be included as part of the overhaul. I intend to build my own case. The reason I will build my own case is that I have a baritone saxophone and a bass saxophone that need cases. The cases for these big horns are quite expensive and have very long lead times when ordered. I can potentially save nearly US$2,000 by building my own cases for the big horns. This is an opportunity to try a couple of ideas on a smaller scale with this overhaul. If this were the only horn needing a case, I would skip this step and buy a DEG case as their cases are quite nice for C-Melody saxophones. 4. Decide if the horn is in need of a minor overhaul or needs major work. Minor work will be pad and spring replacement, cork and felt replacements, regulation, etc. Major work would include dent repair, body tube straightening, any post or tonehole soldering, etc. Since this is a first attempt, any major work required will be a reason to reject the horn for this attempt. Perhaps later, when I am more experienced and brave, I will attempt a major overhaul. 5. Disassembly and inspection. Again copious notes will be taken for later reference. Lots of pictures will be taken to assist in reassembly. Organization will be the key here! Proper organization of the removed parts will ensure a better chance of getting it all back together when the time comes. Each part will be inspected and notes made of any needed repairs or replacements. 6. CLEAN everything inside and out! My daddy taught me that the key to a great overhaul of an automobile engine is to CLEAN everything inside and out! Certainly this is true for a saxophone as well. Then, when all is clean make sure you… 7. CLEAN everything inside and out! Now that everything is really clean you can proceed to the next step, which is… 8. CLEAN everything inside and out! You get the picture. 9. Now, each of the noted repairs will be done. This will be done one piece at a time. Like the proverb that asks “How do you eat an elephant?” with the answer being “One bite at a time!” The saxophone equivalent might be “How do you overhaul a saxophone?” The obvious answer is “One key at a time!” 10. Once all the individual parts are overhauled, it is time to…. 11. CLEAN everything inside and out! Then, when all is clean make sure you… 12. CLEAN everything inside and out! Now that everything is really clean you can proceed to the next step, which is… 13. CLEAN everything inside and out! Now that the parts are truly clean, you should… 14. CLEAN all of your TOOLS as well as your clothes and your HANDS for the reassembly. You know the routine: lather, rinse, and repeat! 15. Finally, it is time for reassembly. As each item is put back on to the saxophone body, it will be oiled, greased, waterproofed, or polished as appropriate. 16. Almost there, now the REAL fun begins! It is time to deleak the horn, again one pad at a time. This is a long and tiring process, but time spent here will make the difference between a failed overhaul and a successful overhaul. 17. Now that the horn has no leaks, it is time for regulation! About this time I expect to be ready for retirement. As you can see, this will be quite a process and if I dedicate one page to each of the steps it will end up as quite a sub-website to this site. I will try to include information about each step. Where the information is redundant with other sites I will reference the sites rather than repeating the information. I expect that by the time it is finished people will come to one of two conclusions. Either they will realize that the prices charged for overhauls are well worth the amount of work involved, or they will decide that they can do their own minor overhaul! And so, the adventure begins!
Jim B User ID: 9454293	Oct 11th 8:39 PM So the instrument you have chosen is an alto,tenor or what?
Paul (UK) User ID: 7545583	Oct 12th 5:11 AM My Kalashan looks as if it was overhauled it the not to distant pass and the corks and bumper felts are all in fairly good condition. Unfortunately the pads used were of the wrong size and thickness in many cases, the low C, B & Bb pads are so thin they are actually rece sed. So far the horn is stripped with each set of keys kept in a seperate draw, ie upper stack etc, and the rods left in situ. I am currently cleaning the body and each key/cup individually and using replating formula as necessary, I will then measure each cup and order pads, and a couple of tools, from music-medic. I haven't decided on pads yet but am leaning towards roos with noyek resonators, but would be very grateful for any advice/observations. My main area of concern is getting the pad heights correct and advice here would be very welcome. I see this as very much a long term project and my intention is to get it right not do it quickly.
WW2 User ID: 1585334	Oct 13th 12:36 PM Jim B - I am going to overhaul a C-Melody of course! Paul (UK) - you are ahead of me in this area. I was thinking of trying Jum Schmidt's new pads, but this is only a thought. I also like the black roo pads. As for resonators, I am thinking I want Gold plated ones, since I intend to end up with a Satin-Silver body and Gold-Plated keys. Other than that, the resonators need to be as big as possible. Like you I consider this a long term project and want to do it right rather than quickly. All repair technicians on this site - How about letting us hear your 2 cents worth?