C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / frozen rod

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ukebert
User ID: 9112483 Nov 11th 10:32 AM
Well, I'm stripping my C Melody to clean the body and keys, and it's gone well. However, three of the rods are not accepting my screwdriver, they won't turn. Any suggestions? My only ideas are to apply key oil (but where?), or to spray the whole area with WD40 or similar and leave for a bit. However, I don't know what that would do to the plate.

Regards,

Owen

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Jan 15th 12:33 PM
Just 'stating the obvious', but where a key moves OK but the rod is seized - a pad (or cork or spring) can often be repaced without actually removing the key. I know it's always best to strip & re-lube, but where "needs must".....

Can always keep soaking and trying in between playing !

ukebert
User ID: 9112483 Jan 16th 4:28 AM
True, but there's a cage over the F#, and I can't get to the pad.

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Jan 16th 9:55 AM
You can't even get an instrument screwdriver into the edge of the pad, and flip it out ? Or apply a little heat to the outside of the cup to melt the shellac ?

P.S - all you watchers, start posting, or the spammers will post more than the contributors.......... That'd be ironic !

ukebert
User ID: 9112483 Jan 16th 11:08 AM
Well, I can get a screwdriver in, and have got the pad off [resopad], but can't get the thing out.

I'll stick with the WD40 for the moment, and see what happens.

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Jan 16th 5:50 PM
Bleedin' Reso's........

ukebert
User ID: 9112483 Jan 17th 11:08 AM
;-)

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Jan 17th 11:17 AM
Owen, I'll suggest it again... In circumstances where WD40 struggled, Loctite Freeze & Release (from Halfords) was impressive.

jazzbug1 2007
User ID: 0735934 Nov 28th 9:12 AM
The old topics awaken. Question for the pros: I am restoring a Rudy model soprano. It must have sat in water, as most of the rods were frozen in their posts and no penetrating oil (Liquid Wrench and PB Blaster) would free them even after three months. I unsoldered the posts, stripped the horn, but now I am left with rods that are stuck in the key tubes which will not budge. Furthermore, some have snapped off at both ends in my futile attemts to get them out. I have tried torching them to expand the tube, but to no avail. The only solution I can think of is to carefully cut a thin seam along the bottom of the tube, where it won't show, open it up a bit, get the rod out, then silver solder the seam back up. This sounds crude, so does anyone else have a better fix? These horns are quite rare and sound great, so my labor is like making love to this beautiful horn. It will join my C soprano on the stage.

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Nov 28th 9:57 AM
jazzbug - you might also want to post this question on the saxontheweb forum, under -
Tech/Science Discussion > Sax Repair, Maintenance and Modification

I suspect, post-Katrina, a load of similarly afflicted horns will surface. (no pun intended...) Obviously you can't 'drift' them out by tapping the ends. Rust must have built up on the rods (inside the tubes) to a great extent. Ouch !

Jeff Frazier
User ID: 9426023 Nov 28th 11:31 AM
JB1,

Call me @ 1-866-996-6394.
I have some stuff here that works. I bought it just for "Katrina" type horns. I can give you some info on it.
HIS,
Jeff "Doc" Frazier
www.JandJ_WOoodwinds.com

alan (uk)
User ID: 1731514 Dec 3rd 9:12 PM
So Jeff - don't the rest of us get to know what it is, this "stuff" ?

Jeff Frazier 07
User ID: 1327644 Dec 3rd 9:54 PM
Alan (UK),

It is a chemical call "In-Force" made by
BG Products, Inc. It was made for the automotive industry. The best I have ever seen. Here is the link:

http://www.bgprod.com/products/aerosol.html

about 2/3 way down the page....#438

Just to give you an idea, the "Katrina" C that is on our site, after sterilizing the entire horn, soaked the keys and springs with a coat of In_Force, 30 minutes later it came apart and ALL of the springs out as if it had been kept in the closet for 80 years. Same thing with the Martin bari, a Martin alto sax, 2 clarinets and a Lyon and Healy trumpet in the same hurricane.

HIS,
Jeff
www.JandJWoodwinds.com

alan (uk)
User ID: 1731514 Dec 4th 4:16 AM
Thanks (sincerely...). It is heartening to know that a lot of Martins survived 8-)) - of course, I'm happy for all the other makes as well !

Alan.

jazzbug1 2007
User ID: 0735934 Dec 4th 7:36 AM
I sent for some "In-Force" per my conversation with Jeff. I'll let you all know how it worked.
May the In-Force be with you.

ukebert
User ID: 7928263 Dec 4th 7:48 AM
I'm assuming it won't corrode the silver plate?

Sounds like strong stuff.

Jeff 07
User ID: 1327644 Dec 4th 8:36 AM
It doesn't hurt silver, gold or lac at all.

HIS,
Jeff

ukebert
User ID: 7928263 Dec 4th 9:49 AM
Very impressive.

Captain Beeflat 2007
User ID: 1738604 Dec 5th 5:35 AM
Jazzbug.
What you are doing sounds to be bordering on the desperate.
Forgive me please for stating the obvious, but have you considered remaking the key tube with new brass tube?
Presumably you must have stock of tube, axle rod & a selection of small taps and dies. A far better, cleaner, and more satisfying than relying on "Bodgex", "Fixit", or similar palliatives. Spark erosion is another, equally unsatisfactory solution.
Some wise old Red Indian is alleged to have said "... it takes an hour to make a good arrow, and two hours to make a bad one..." Take heed.

jazzbug1 2007
User ID: 0735934 Dec 5th 7:31 AM
I am building what I hope will be the first successful fusion reactor to re-create, atom by atom, these frozen keys.

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

ukebert User ID: 9112483	Nov 11th 10:32 AM Well, I'm stripping my C Melody to clean the body and keys, and it's gone well. However, three of the rods are not accepting my screwdriver, they won't turn. Any suggestions? My only ideas are to apply key oil (but where?), or to spray the whole area with WD40 or similar and leave for a bit. However, I don't know what that would do to the plate. Regards, Owen
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Jan 15th 12:33 PM Just 'stating the obvious', but where a key moves OK but the rod is seized - a pad (or cork or spring) can often be repaced without actually removing the key. I know it's always best to strip & re-lube, but where "needs must"..... Can always keep soaking and trying in between playing !
ukebert User ID: 9112483	Jan 16th 4:28 AM True, but there's a cage over the F#, and I can't get to the pad.
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Jan 16th 9:55 AM You can't even get an instrument screwdriver into the edge of the pad, and flip it out ? Or apply a little heat to the outside of the cup to melt the shellac ? P.S - all you watchers, start posting, or the spammers will post more than the contributors.......... That'd be ironic !
ukebert User ID: 9112483	Jan 16th 11:08 AM Well, I can get a screwdriver in, and have got the pad off [resopad], but can't get the thing out. I'll stick with the WD40 for the moment, and see what happens.
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Jan 16th 5:50 PM Bleedin' Reso's........
ukebert User ID: 9112483	Jan 17th 11:08 AM ;-)
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Jan 17th 11:17 AM Owen, I'll suggest it again... In circumstances where WD40 struggled, Loctite Freeze & Release (from Halfords) was impressive.
jazzbug1 2007 User ID: 0735934	Nov 28th 9:12 AM The old topics awaken. Question for the pros: I am restoring a Rudy model soprano. It must have sat in water, as most of the rods were frozen in their posts and no penetrating oil (Liquid Wrench and PB Blaster) would free them even after three months. I unsoldered the posts, stripped the horn, but now I am left with rods that are stuck in the key tubes which will not budge. Furthermore, some have snapped off at both ends in my futile attemts to get them out. I have tried torching them to expand the tube, but to no avail. The only solution I can think of is to carefully cut a thin seam along the bottom of the tube, where it won't show, open it up a bit, get the rod out, then silver solder the seam back up. This sounds crude, so does anyone else have a better fix? These horns are quite rare and sound great, so my labor is like making love to this beautiful horn. It will join my C soprano on the stage.
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Nov 28th 9:57 AM jazzbug - you might also want to post this question on the saxontheweb forum, under - Tech/Science Discussion > Sax Repair, Maintenance and Modification I suspect, post-Katrina, a load of similarly afflicted horns will surface. (no pun intended...) Obviously you can't 'drift' them out by tapping the ends. Rust must have built up on the rods (inside the tubes) to a great extent. Ouch !
Jeff Frazier User ID: 9426023	Nov 28th 11:31 AM JB1, Call me @ 1-866-996-6394. I have some stuff here that works. I bought it just for "Katrina" type horns. I can give you some info on it. HIS, Jeff "Doc" Frazier www.JandJ_WOoodwinds.com
alan (uk) User ID: 1731514	Dec 3rd 9:12 PM So Jeff - don't the rest of us get to know what it is, this "stuff" ?
Jeff Frazier 07 User ID: 1327644	Dec 3rd 9:54 PM Alan (UK), It is a chemical call "In-Force" made by BG Products, Inc. It was made for the automotive industry. The best I have ever seen. Here is the link: http://www.bgprod.com/products/aerosol.html about 2/3 way down the page....#438 Just to give you an idea, the "Katrina" C that is on our site, after sterilizing the entire horn, soaked the keys and springs with a coat of In_Force, 30 minutes later it came apart and ALL of the springs out as if it had been kept in the closet for 80 years. Same thing with the Martin bari, a Martin alto sax, 2 clarinets and a Lyon and Healy trumpet in the same hurricane. HIS, Jeff www.JandJWoodwinds.com
alan (uk) User ID: 1731514	Dec 4th 4:16 AM Thanks (sincerely...). It is heartening to know that a lot of Martins survived 8-)) - of course, I'm happy for all the other makes as well ! Alan.
jazzbug1 2007 User ID: 0735934	Dec 4th 7:36 AM I sent for some "In-Force" per my conversation with Jeff. I'll let you all know how it worked. May the In-Force be with you.
ukebert User ID: 7928263	Dec 4th 7:48 AM I'm assuming it won't corrode the silver plate? Sounds like strong stuff.
Jeff 07 User ID: 1327644	Dec 4th 8:36 AM It doesn't hurt silver, gold or lac at all. HIS, Jeff
ukebert User ID: 7928263	Dec 4th 9:49 AM Very impressive.
Captain Beeflat 2007 User ID: 1738604	Dec 5th 5:35 AM Jazzbug. What you are doing sounds to be bordering on the desperate. Forgive me please for stating the obvious, but have you considered remaking the key tube with new brass tube? Presumably you must have stock of tube, axle rod & a selection of small taps and dies. A far better, cleaner, and more satisfying than relying on "Bodgex", "Fixit", or similar palliatives. Spark erosion is another, equally unsatisfactory solution. Some wise old Red Indian is alleged to have said "... it takes an hour to make a good arrow, and two hours to make a bad one..." Take heed.
jazzbug1 2007 User ID: 0735934	Dec 5th 7:31 AM I am building what I hope will be the first successful fusion reactor to re-create, atom by atom, these frozen keys.