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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / Missed anything obvious ?

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alan (uk) '08
User ID: 1731514 Feb 14th 1:37 PM
Well, you wanted new topics.

I get quite a lot of useful info by reading the topics in the Saxontheweb "Repair" section, but don't like to comment much as I'm not that expert (by comparison to some) - or so I thought.

There was a topic about someone dismantling a Conn New Wonder, but had problems with stuck rods/screws.. After reading all the useful proferred 'freeing up' suggestions, I privately mailed the young dismantler and asked an obvious question - wanting to spare his blushes by asking on an open forum.

The question was "You do know about the little locking screws on the side of the pillars ? Are you trying to unscrew locked screws, by any chance ?"

He was, he hadn't notice the locking grubscrews, another Conn innovation........... Talk about experts missing the obvious.

So, what have you guys ever said "Doh !" about ?

Captain Beeflat 2008
User ID: 1738604 Feb 18th 7:28 AM
Ukebert.
I do not think that church bells qualify as they are a simple casting, an eye to suspend it & a dangling rope yanked by some person so inconsiderate as to disturb anyone within ear shot.
Not a complex manufactured item.

ukebert
User ID: 1300074 Feb 18th 12:38 PM
Your ignorance betrays you Bb, I take it that you haven't been up in a tower...

When you think that in an ancient stone tower one has to insert a frame capable of holding 8 or even 12 very heavy bells all swinging at once then I'm sure you can appreciate the stresses involved. Also remember that in English Church bell ringing the frame itself is remarkably complicated, it has a wheel and slider, bearings, pulleys and so on. This has to be extremelly accurate for the bell to swing nicely. The shape of the bell is also highly technical, the sound as you know is dictated by the shape. The composition again is important, there is a particular alloy which is usually used. Clapper design has been coming under scrutiny recently, with wood/steel clappers being tested.

It is a technical business. Perhaps not as technical as a car or a saxophone, but it is a complex manufactured item.

Captain Beeflat 2008
User ID: 1738604 Feb 18th 1:08 PM
It is a barbaric Medieval practice equalled only by witch burning. Your expression "bell swinging nicely" is an oxymoron on a level with Sports Diesel (diseasal) or vegetarian banquet.
My sons had sleep deprivation throughout the seventies because of this utterly selfish and pointless practice.
Carried out by brain dead geeks with no ambition, with ginger hair and still lived with their parents at 35.
The reaction from the church at every level was as uncaring as one would expect.
Compared with the church, the Mafia are a bunch of Sunday school teachers.

jazzbug1 2008
User ID: 0735934 Feb 18th 2:21 PM
I studied in religious school in Sicily, where we had the best of all three.

Captain Beeflat 2008
User ID: 1738604 Feb 18th 2:34 PM
JB1....Surely you mean least bad!

ukebert
User ID: 1300074 Feb 18th 4:53 PM
Well, I see that I am to be unable to convince you about the merits of the discipline, however will you accept the engineering complexity of a ring of bells?

Captain Beeflat 2008
User ID: 1738604 Feb 19th 4:12 AM
I am less concerned about the "merits of the discipline" (as you grandiloquently call it) than the utter distress that you are willing to inflict upon others. Others who have absolutely no redress thanks to the inflexibility & lack of compassion of the ****** church.
We have laws restricting the noise from motor vehicles....the church does not have to comply.
We have laws preventing noise at unreasonable times...the church does not have to comply.
It astonishes me that a superstitious & smug minority, with no evidence whatsoever, attempt to pollute us with their words and actions.
"Engineering complexity" of a puerile ring of bells.... A truly embarrassing statement...I can only assume that you are not an engineer...

ukebert
User ID: 7928263 Feb 19th 10:24 AM
Cap'n Bb, I am not one yet, with any luck I will be in 4 years time. And you cannot seriously say that swinging a bell the mass of a small car through over 400 degrees would not generate a significant force on the frame and tower...

ukebert
User ID: 7928263 Feb 19th 10:25 AM
I should add that we have absorptive panels in our bell-chamber and ring using a simulator (bells silenced and infra-red sensors used instead) when practicing. Even when living next door to one as it sounds like you did at one point one wouldn't notice the bells at all.

jazzbug1 2008
User ID: 0735934 Feb 19th 12:05 PM
I once played a jazz concert in front of a church. It was 6:00 sharp, the crowd had gathered, and I heard the Carrillon (spelling?) chiming. I thought I'll start warming up my saxophones so I'm ready to play. All these people started shushing me and I thought WHY? It turned out that a world famous chime player (chimist?) was bonging out the time, followed by a song played by hand. No one had warned me that they were the opening act for the jazz. So there I was honking a C Melody part way into this beautiful bell solo that I thought was just the usual pre-recorded blurb. JB1=Red faced Geezer.

Captain Beeflat 2008
User ID: 1738604 Feb 19th 12:54 PM
Anyone with half a brain would have provided counter balances.
As these myth pedlars deny Darwin, why should they be expected to take note of, or even understand, Newton?
I am pleased that your pointless practice no longer annoys others...perhaps my campaign involving a VW Split Screen bus, a Honda generator, an H&H 100 watt amp, a Marshall 4x12 Slant Cab and a tape of AC/DC's Hells Bells at full chat outside my neighbouring church one Sunday morning in '91 had some effect.

jazzbug1 2008
User ID: 0735934 Feb 19th 1:30 PM
My Studebaker has a two piece "windscreen". I think they ought to bring them back to punish people who don't wear their seat belts. That center strut could provide the victim with a "Dual Personality".

bruce bailey 2008
User ID: 9690803 Feb 19th 11:58 PM
I had a girlfriend named Carolyn. Does that ring a bell?

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 Feb 20th 12:53 AM
I believe the name of the guy playing the bells is "carilloneur", at least if he's playing it from a keyboard and not pulling every rope himself.

alan (uk) '08
User ID: 1731514 Feb 20th 3:58 AM
'Campanology' rings a bell....

(therefore I assume 'campanologist '?) We has a 'massed handbell-ringing orchestra' at Grammar School !

The sort of thing Cornish Schools excelled in. That, and Maypole dancing (uuuggghhh !) I await Lewis' comments with interest...

Captain Beeflat 2008
User ID: 1738604 Feb 20th 3:59 AM
Mal-2k8.
I am sure that you are right...however, I have a more colourful name for them; the action is similar. :-)

alan (uk) '08
User ID: 1731514 Feb 20th 4:39 AM
Mal - I think carilloneur is also correct, probably more European origins, since the 'camp' in 'campanology' acquired a slightly different meaning... Much like 'gay' used to be a happy word - and ornithologists went through being 'twitchers' and are now called 'birdies'...

Political correctness and fashionability... 8-))

Captain Beeflat 2008
User ID: 1738604 Feb 20th 6:17 AM
Alan. The English Language has to evolve in order to accommodate new situations and technology...the need for the words "Digital" and "Bungalow" being good examples.
Sad, however when the Politically Self Opinionated change the meanings of words as euphemisms to assuage the delicate sensitivities of groups such as homosexualists, bell ringers, and bird watchers.
If a word exists to define, then why change it? It only leads to un-necessary confusion.
Homosexualists and those of the accepted sexual persuasion who choose to live together, but are not married, now have "partners"...the real word is s**g.
My father was a Partner in a Consulting Engineering Company. If he were alive now he would not be able to introduce his colleagues by their correct title of partner without suffering extreme embarrassment and sideways glances....it really is not fair.
Have the courage please to say things how they are...the correct word is there...use it.

With regard to the strange (and unsurprising) practices at your Cornish school, I am amazed that you came through unscathed (weeeel, relatively :-))...at least they had the decency to stop short of Morris Dancing.

ukebert
User ID: 1300074 Feb 20th 7:24 AM
Campnology refers to the art of bellringing, and is still commonly used. I don't think it applies to carillon players, as they are really musicians...

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages Newest 20 Messages

alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1731514	Feb 14th 1:37 PM Well, you wanted new topics. I get quite a lot of useful info by reading the topics in the Saxontheweb "Repair" section, but don't like to comment much as I'm not that expert (by comparison to some) - or so I thought. There was a topic about someone dismantling a Conn New Wonder, but had problems with stuck rods/screws.. After reading all the useful proferred 'freeing up' suggestions, I privately mailed the young dismantler and asked an obvious question - wanting to spare his blushes by asking on an open forum. The question was "You do know about the little locking screws on the side of the pillars ? Are you trying to unscrew locked screws, by any chance ?" He was, he hadn't notice the locking grubscrews, another Conn innovation........... Talk about experts missing the obvious. So, what have you guys ever said "Doh !" about ?
Captain Beeflat 2008 User ID: 1738604	Feb 18th 7:28 AM Ukebert. I do not think that church bells qualify as they are a simple casting, an eye to suspend it & a dangling rope yanked by some person so inconsiderate as to disturb anyone within ear shot. Not a complex manufactured item.
ukebert User ID: 1300074	Feb 18th 12:38 PM Your ignorance betrays you Bb, I take it that you haven't been up in a tower... When you think that in an ancient stone tower one has to insert a frame capable of holding 8 or even 12 very heavy bells all swinging at once then I'm sure you can appreciate the stresses involved. Also remember that in English Church bell ringing the frame itself is remarkably complicated, it has a wheel and slider, bearings, pulleys and so on. This has to be extremelly accurate for the bell to swing nicely. The shape of the bell is also highly technical, the sound as you know is dictated by the shape. The composition again is important, there is a particular alloy which is usually used. Clapper design has been coming under scrutiny recently, with wood/steel clappers being tested. It is a technical business. Perhaps not as technical as a car or a saxophone, but it is a complex manufactured item.
Captain Beeflat 2008 User ID: 1738604	Feb 18th 1:08 PM It is a barbaric Medieval practice equalled only by witch burning. Your expression "bell swinging nicely" is an oxymoron on a level with Sports Diesel (diseasal) or vegetarian banquet. My sons had sleep deprivation throughout the seventies because of this utterly selfish and pointless practice. Carried out by brain dead geeks with no ambition, with ginger hair and still lived with their parents at 35. The reaction from the church at every level was as uncaring as one would expect. Compared with the church, the Mafia are a bunch of Sunday school teachers.
jazzbug1 2008 User ID: 0735934	Feb 18th 2:21 PM I studied in religious school in Sicily, where we had the best of all three.
Captain Beeflat 2008 User ID: 1738604	Feb 18th 2:34 PM JB1....Surely you mean least bad!
ukebert User ID: 1300074	Feb 18th 4:53 PM Well, I see that I am to be unable to convince you about the merits of the discipline, however will you accept the engineering complexity of a ring of bells?
Captain Beeflat 2008 User ID: 1738604	Feb 19th 4:12 AM I am less concerned about the "merits of the discipline" (as you grandiloquently call it) than the utter distress that you are willing to inflict upon others. Others who have absolutely no redress thanks to the inflexibility & lack of compassion of the ****** church. We have laws restricting the noise from motor vehicles....the church does not have to comply. We have laws preventing noise at unreasonable times...the church does not have to comply. It astonishes me that a superstitious & smug minority, with no evidence whatsoever, attempt to pollute us with their words and actions. "Engineering complexity" of a puerile ring of bells.... A truly embarrassing statement...I can only assume that you are not an engineer...
ukebert User ID: 7928263	Feb 19th 10:24 AM Cap'n Bb, I am not one yet, with any luck I will be in 4 years time. And you cannot seriously say that swinging a bell the mass of a small car through over 400 degrees would not generate a significant force on the frame and tower...
ukebert User ID: 7928263	Feb 19th 10:25 AM I should add that we have absorptive panels in our bell-chamber and ring using a simulator (bells silenced and infra-red sensors used instead) when practicing. Even when living next door to one as it sounds like you did at one point one wouldn't notice the bells at all.
jazzbug1 2008 User ID: 0735934	Feb 19th 12:05 PM I once played a jazz concert in front of a church. It was 6:00 sharp, the crowd had gathered, and I heard the Carrillon (spelling?) chiming. I thought I'll start warming up my saxophones so I'm ready to play. All these people started shushing me and I thought WHY? It turned out that a world famous chime player (chimist?) was bonging out the time, followed by a song played by hand. No one had warned me that they were the opening act for the jazz. So there I was honking a C Melody part way into this beautiful bell solo that I thought was just the usual pre-recorded blurb. JB1=Red faced Geezer.
Captain Beeflat 2008 User ID: 1738604	Feb 19th 12:54 PM Anyone with half a brain would have provided counter balances. As these myth pedlars deny Darwin, why should they be expected to take note of, or even understand, Newton? I am pleased that your pointless practice no longer annoys others...perhaps my campaign involving a VW Split Screen bus, a Honda generator, an H&H 100 watt amp, a Marshall 4x12 Slant Cab and a tape of AC/DC's Hells Bells at full chat outside my neighbouring church one Sunday morning in '91 had some effect.
jazzbug1 2008 User ID: 0735934	Feb 19th 1:30 PM My Studebaker has a two piece "windscreen". I think they ought to bring them back to punish people who don't wear their seat belts. That center strut could provide the victim with a "Dual Personality".
bruce bailey 2008 User ID: 9690803	Feb 19th 11:58 PM I had a girlfriend named Carolyn. Does that ring a bell?
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Feb 20th 12:53 AM I believe the name of the guy playing the bells is "carilloneur", at least if he's playing it from a keyboard and not pulling every rope himself.
alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1731514	Feb 20th 3:58 AM 'Campanology' rings a bell.... (therefore I assume 'campanologist '?) We has a 'massed handbell-ringing orchestra' at Grammar School ! The sort of thing Cornish Schools excelled in. That, and Maypole dancing (uuuggghhh !) I await Lewis' comments with interest...
Captain Beeflat 2008 User ID: 1738604	Feb 20th 3:59 AM Mal-2k8. I am sure that you are right...however, I have a more colourful name for them; the action is similar. :-)
alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1731514	Feb 20th 4:39 AM Mal - I think carilloneur is also correct, probably more European origins, since the 'camp' in 'campanology' acquired a slightly different meaning... Much like 'gay' used to be a happy word - and ornithologists went through being 'twitchers' and are now called 'birdies'... Political correctness and fashionability... 8-))
Captain Beeflat 2008 User ID: 1738604	Feb 20th 6:17 AM Alan. The English Language has to evolve in order to accommodate new situations and technology...the need for the words "Digital" and "Bungalow" being good examples. Sad, however when the Politically Self Opinionated change the meanings of words as euphemisms to assuage the delicate sensitivities of groups such as homosexualists, bell ringers, and bird watchers. If a word exists to define, then why change it? It only leads to un-necessary confusion. Homosexualists and those of the accepted sexual persuasion who choose to live together, but are not married, now have "partners"...the real word is s**g. My father was a Partner in a Consulting Engineering Company. If he were alive now he would not be able to introduce his colleagues by their correct title of partner without suffering extreme embarrassment and sideways glances....it really is not fair. Have the courage please to say things how they are...the correct word is there...use it. With regard to the strange (and unsurprising) practices at your Cornish school, I am amazed that you came through unscathed (weeeel, relatively :-))...at least they had the decency to stop short of Morris Dancing.
ukebert User ID: 1300074	Feb 20th 7:24 AM Campnology refers to the art of bellringing, and is still commonly used. I don't think it applies to carillon players, as they are really musicians...