C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / Originality or playability?

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 Apr 28th 11:15 PM
Where do each of you draw the line modifying a horn to do what you want at the cost of its authenticity? Is it at least partially dependent on the cost and scarcity of the instrument?

I have reverse-sprung the fork-Eb pad -- not because it doesn't work properly (it actually works just fine when enabled), but because I was so dissatisfied with the tone of the Eb so produced that I decided the instrument was better off without it. Being fully reversible, I doubt anyone can really object to a change like this.

But what about bending palm keys and side keys to fit your hands? Is that offensive, or is it a reasonable thing to do for something you play daily? I know there are Runyon risers to do the job, but I have never liked the feel of rubber on keywork. I try to keep this within reason, since I know the horn is almost 90 years old and not made of as strong an alloy as more recent horns. This means adding cork to the top of the key when necessary, but again those are fully reversible.

How about adding a G# bar (acquired elsewhere) over the pearl button because it's too small and uncomfortable? Does it make a difference if it's merely hot-glued on, or if it requires a minor alteration of the original key? I tried just gluing it on but any tap from the back side and it would go flying. I finally had to drill a tiny (1/16") hole through the key and pearl so I could bolt them together.

http://mal-2.com/sax/cmel-gsharp1.jpg
http://mal-2.com/sax/cmel-gsharp2.jpg

What about enhancements that don't just improve an existing feature but add one that is completely absent? There are not many of these that don't involve adding tone holes, but Front F has to be one of the most important:

http://mal-2.com/sax/cmel-frontf.jpg

It looks a bit odd because it's a nickel-plated key with gold lacquer posts (both stolen off a YTS-21), but I think it would look a bit more "stock" if I got these parts silver-plated. I'm just not inclined to pull the posts back off to do so (though I do have more where those came from).

I'd be more concerned about authenticity if I cared about resale value, but really I don't -- I paid $300 for this horn, and I know that wasn't a particularly amazing deal (though it wasn't bad either). If push came to shove, I'd probably sell off the Dolnet bari first because it's both the most valuable and the most easily replaced with a better horn. The fact is that I bought this horn to PLAY it, not to admire it.

jazzbug1 2008
User ID: 0735934 Apr 30th 8:11 AM
Mal-- I think it does no harm at all to bend keys or shut off that pesky Eb trill key. This was frequently done even when the horns were new.
Unless we are dealing with a rare 19th century horn or custom engraved gold horn, I see no harm in altering a typical production horn to make it play better. Some player 100 years from now will thank you. Horns are to be played. I own a vintage automobile and drive it, not keep it in a trailer for show. People appreciate the sounds of the past. If you are hesitant, use epoxy instead of solder. It holds well, but can be removed.

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 May 3rd 8:42 PM
Neither of the "hard" alterations I made will do anything to the sound directly. The G# mod won't do anything, period, it's purely ergonomic. The high F will only have an effect when it's used (which for me is fairly frequently), but the same sound could be obtained by the awkward means of closing left hand keys and hitting the palm key at the same time. I just got REALLY tired of doing that.

I have since re-enabled the Eb key. I was cleaning the silver and snagged the spring, which broke it. When I replaced the spring (with one "borrowed" off the parts horn YTS-21), I decided to just leave it working.

I don't think this horn was ever intended to sound like what I expect it to, which is a bright tenor. Too bad, long-dead Buescher engineers! :P

Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Apr 28th 11:15 PM Where do each of you draw the line modifying a horn to do what you want at the cost of its authenticity? Is it at least partially dependent on the cost and scarcity of the instrument? I have reverse-sprung the fork-Eb pad -- not because it doesn't work properly (it actually works just fine when enabled), but because I was so dissatisfied with the tone of the Eb so produced that I decided the instrument was better off without it. Being fully reversible, I doubt anyone can really object to a change like this. But what about bending palm keys and side keys to fit your hands? Is that offensive, or is it a reasonable thing to do for something you play daily? I know there are Runyon risers to do the job, but I have never liked the feel of rubber on keywork. I try to keep this within reason, since I know the horn is almost 90 years old and not made of as strong an alloy as more recent horns. This means adding cork to the top of the key when necessary, but again those are fully reversible. How about adding a G# bar (acquired elsewhere) over the pearl button because it's too small and uncomfortable? Does it make a difference if it's merely hot-glued on, or if it requires a minor alteration of the original key? I tried just gluing it on but any tap from the back side and it would go flying. I finally had to drill a tiny (1/16") hole through the key and pearl so I could bolt them together. http://mal-2.com/sax/cmel-gsharp1.jpg http://mal-2.com/sax/cmel-gsharp2.jpg What about enhancements that don't just improve an existing feature but add one that is completely absent? There are not many of these that don't involve adding tone holes, but Front F has to be one of the most important: http://mal-2.com/sax/cmel-frontf.jpg It looks a bit odd because it's a nickel-plated key with gold lacquer posts (both stolen off a YTS-21), but I think it would look a bit more "stock" if I got these parts silver-plated. I'm just not inclined to pull the posts back off to do so (though I do have more where those came from). I'd be more concerned about authenticity if I cared about resale value, but really I don't -- I paid $300 for this horn, and I know that wasn't a particularly amazing deal (though it wasn't bad either). If push came to shove, I'd probably sell off the Dolnet bari first because it's both the most valuable and the most easily replaced with a better horn. The fact is that I bought this horn to PLAY it, not to admire it.
jazzbug1 2008 User ID: 0735934	Apr 30th 8:11 AM Mal-- I think it does no harm at all to bend keys or shut off that pesky Eb trill key. This was frequently done even when the horns were new. Unless we are dealing with a rare 19th century horn or custom engraved gold horn, I see no harm in altering a typical production horn to make it play better. Some player 100 years from now will thank you. Horns are to be played. I own a vintage automobile and drive it, not keep it in a trailer for show. People appreciate the sounds of the past. If you are hesitant, use epoxy instead of solder. It holds well, but can be removed.
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	May 3rd 8:42 PM Neither of the "hard" alterations I made will do anything to the sound directly. The G# mod won't do anything, period, it's purely ergonomic. The high F will only have an effect when it's used (which for me is fairly frequently), but the same sound could be obtained by the awkward means of closing left hand keys and hitting the palm key at the same time. I just got REALLY tired of doing that. I have since re-enabled the Eb key. I was cleaning the silver and snagged the spring, which broke it. When I replaced the spring (with one "borrowed" off the parts horn YTS-21), I decided to just leave it working. I don't think this horn was ever intended to sound like what I expect it to, which is a bright tenor. Too bad, long-dead Buescher engineers! :P