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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / Metal Epoxy Glue

Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 8200143	Feb 2nd 6:16 AM Just out of interest, has anyone tried metal epoxy (or epoxy putty) instead of soft-soldering for sax repairs ? Maybe to refix a pillar or guard, or similar ? I've used Araldite 'steel' epoxy to re-join a neck to it's tenon, and, like soldering, as long as you properly clean the joining surfaces it seems very strong. I don't mean the old (translucent) 'encapsulating' aradite, I mean the newer 'instant metal' stuff.
WW2 User ID: 9955583	Feb 2nd 12:53 PM Doesn't this make it impossible to remove the part in the future if need be?
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 8200143	Feb 2nd 1:46 PM Wade, very valid point..... I'll give you that one. Hmmm. But, after further consideration (with the caveat that I'd use it on bits that shouldn't have seperated, and I probably wouldn't want to seperate again), it does seem to offer me the ability to refix posts etc. without the resultant and frequently unavoidable local heat damage to the finish, and maybe avoid unsoldering very close joints whilst soldering something else. Maybe I should try a 'shear' test on an old sax carcass - just to see how/if it is removable.
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Apr 18th 7:27 AM Very old topic, but having recently had a bell brace come loose at the body end, I did some tests on some posts my 'scrapper' C-mel to see if I could avoid resoldering the brace (it was in the middle of a 'highly populated' forest of posts just waiting to pop up....) I ended up soldering, as the epoxy glues I tried would all shear at the joint before a soldered joint gave way (and I needed max strength) - but still useful where a post is safely 'tucked away' and difficult to solder without collateral damage. Joint strengths, weakest first, strongest last... i) JB-Weld - the wimp. ii) Araldite Steel iii) Araldite Clear (Rapid) iv) Araldite Clear - slow setting - the winner. Whatever the epoxy used, 24/48 hours undisturbed curing time is essential. And the answer to Wades question "Doesn't this make it impossible to remove the part in the future if need be?" No, very civilised. The joint can be broken with a swift sharp sideways (shearing) tap with a small engineering hammer. The glue residue can then be burnt (caramelised) with a flame, and chips off very easily with a small screwdriver, revealing the original metal/solder surface underneath. Bang goes the old myth about epoxy being difficult to remove I was surprised when I researched epoxy usage, exactly how many respected repairmen advocate it's use "in suitable circumstances", and how many modern sax bow/bell joints are epoxy....... So soldering is still tops, but only if you practise and develop a technique.
Jim B User ID: 2686314	Apr 18th 3:33 PM On my old Conn Bari made in the 1920s, the neck is a one piece tube with no keywork. I used the epoxy to add a metal brace so the neck would be less likely to bend. I had to remove one brace and it also was easy to remove.While a hard snap would break the brace, the brace does offer some protection for the neck---better than no protection.
WW2 User ID: 0882114	Apr 19th 2:06 PM Very timely information Cmelodysax-uk. My Bari and Bass saxophones both need so quick repairs!
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Apr 19th 2:18 PM Wade, you can still call me Alan.....
WW2 User ID: 0882114	Apr 20th 2:25 PM Okay, thank Alan!
10sax User ID: 1334734	Mar 2nd 4:54 AM >> v) Araldite Clear - slow setting - the winner. I need to reattach a post on a very old metal clarinet and re-soldering would do considerable cosmetic damage to the finish. However, I'm having difficulty determining which Araldide you used in your experiment as they have may types. Araldite 2011 maybe? Listing is here: http://www.adhesivehelp.com/vantico.html Thanks!
bruce bailey 2008 User ID: 9690803	Mar 2nd 11:59 PM I use an epoxy called J-B weld which I assume is available worldwide. I get it at Wal-mart or any hardware store. It is a paste that mixes 50-50 and can be worked for about 30 minutes and sets strong in about 24 hours. The good part is it is dark grey when dry and can be sanded. I just resoldered a post on a King soprano and it is rock strong. Place a dab under the post (best with the keywork attached to line it up) and when in place, wipe the excess off. Try not to get thinner of solvent too close as it will weaken the epoxy. I use this stuff all the time. I fixed a crack in an aluminum oil pan, VW diesel fuel tank and it is great for refitting those loose tenons on wood flute heads. If the part needs to be soldered later, youcna burn the J-B off with a torch.
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Mar 3rd 9:11 AM If you're going to do this, make sure you use the slow-setting Original variety of J-B Weld that takes 24 hours to completely set up and do not substitute J-B Kwik. J-B Kwik is not anywhere near as strong and is totally unsuitable for any sort of structural work. J-B Kwik also gets hot enough (because it sets so fast) that it can scald you and even melt some plastics. Also you can wipe still-liquid J-B Weld off with soap and water and a cloth, you do not need solvents. Can you tell I've done this before? If it wasn't for J-B Weld, my entire tenor would be a pile of disconnected parts.
Mal-2K8 User ID: 9335603	Mar 3rd 9:55 AM Also J-B Weld is available at every hole-in-the-wall auto parts store I've ever been to, right next to the stuff in a tube that looks like modeling clay, and also right next to the totally unsuitable J-B Kwik. The clay-like stuff is what I used for the palm key risers on alto and is great if you want to add on to touchpieces or generally extrude things, but is also not suitable for structural work. I mention this because there are generally more auto parts stores in a given region than there are hardware stores. In the distance it would take me to drive to the nearest Home Depot, there are five auto parts stores, if not more.
bruce bailey 2008 User ID: 9690803	Mar 3rd 11:27 PM Sorry I forgot about the Kwik junk. I tried it once and it was pretty poor. I also use the good stuff for repairing mike holders. In 1993 I repaired the washer (Whirlpool) at my parents' house that had a leak in the tub. It was caused by the bolts below having bumped a dent in the coating of the tub causing rust and a pair of holes. I took the basket out and smeared some epoxy in and the old thing is still working just fine 15 years later. AT the time my father was having by-pass surgery and told me that if he died to get my mother a new machine. Our Scottish background dictated repairing the old one. My father is now 93 and my mother died 8 years ago.
alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1278884	Mar 4th 5:46 AM Yes, JB-Weld is available in the UK, so it must be available in other third-world countries... 8-)) It's sold as JB-Weld "Marine" over here, for some strange reason...
jazzbug1 User ID: 0735934	Mar 4th 8:36 AM JB weld has fixed my Studebaker engine block. I have fastened some saxophone parts and,after curing under a mild heat lamp, I have tested the mend with a light hammer whack. It holds up well and is less tricky than solder. Just design a good way to clamp the repair.
Mal-2 User ID: 9335603	Mar 5th 12:06 AM I've used J-B weld and some sheet metal to fix the lever of a broken palm key -- I'd totally forgotten about that because of all the OTHER repairs on my tenor, but this one was deliberately inflicted. Basically I found that the high F palm key was way too far down for my liking, and this tenor was pretty well smashed up anyhow, so I cut through the key about midway between the palm button and the axle (on a diagonal, to make the restored key more stable, I thought), cut out about 8 mm of length, and tried to solder it back together. It would not hold, I would inevitably break the solder joint within the hour. I gave it three tries and decided there had to be a better way. I took a PC slot cover from my junk drawer and made sort of a V-shaped "cast" for the key by folding it in half. Then I put mixed J-B weld into the bend in the slot cover and shoved the cut ends of the key in there, lining them up by my best estimation. Having already had three soldering attempts, I pretty well knew what it should look like. Then I left the whole thing in a vise overnight to set up. The intent was that I would be able to peel off the slot cover the next day, but I found that the thin sheet metal was firmly bonded to the key. I did a quick check and determined that leaving the key "bandaged" would not interfere with anything, so I cut the excess slot cover off with the same Dremel tool I used to cut the key in the first place, and just left it alone after that. It's still that way today. It looks like I might have a replacement lined up, but I'll be borrowing parts off the smashed-up YTS-23, assuming they fit the 21 -- and I think the high F palm key will match. I'd much rather recycle existing hacks than hack up working keys unnecessarily.