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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / Cleaning silver plate

Next 20 Messages

Kokopeli
User ID: 7705853 Feb 3rd 2:27 PM
Thirty years ago, I learnt to play on a Buescher True Tone C Melody (#177177 circa 1925) while at school. Amazingly, I've tracked down the very same horn and have been reunited with a very old friend...

The chances of this happening must be pretty remote and I'm amazed at how familiar it feels after all this time. It's still got its original case (complete with a new handle that my dad fixed in 1975!) and even has the orginal mouthpiece, cap and lig. It's even got most of the original white pads.

Although the key work had been removed when I picked it up (stalled restoration project I think) I reassembled it as soon as I got home and it plays very well considering. Sadly, the silver plate is pitted and I'm wondering how best to clean it up. Any suggestions gratefully received.

TomGK
User ID: 9189423 Feb 3rd 5:06 PM
Hello Kokopeli,

How many kids do you have? ;)

I have used "silver cloth" sold at music supply stores to clean silver plated instruments.
Unfotunately, pitting is difficult to get rid of. If you buff too much you may eliminate the plating altoghether and some of the brass as well.

Tom

kokopeli
User ID: 7705853 Feb 5th 2:21 PM
lol Tom, I got carried away in the excitement, but since you ask, three by different fathers. I tried a silver cloth and some silver dip - the horn looks a treat!

mossite
User ID: 8255903 Feb 6th 6:26 AM
When i have a real bad looking horn, the first thing I do is taking it completly apart.

Than I use an old toothbrush and liquid silver bath and treat the whole body with this. The tarnish vanishs real quick and good.
Than I rinse it of with warm water in the bathtop or sometimes i but it in the dishwasher. C-Mels fit in a dishwasher.

I dry it of realy good. Than i have a marverlous polishing paste wich I put very thin on the sax and polish it of with a silver cloth. The sax now looks "as new".

The same treatment for the keys, only with the difference that you have to be carefull that the pads don´t get wet.

Then I use a very good oil and put it all back together. The liquid silver bath,the polishing paste and my silver cloth are all treated with an anti tarnish stuff. So the sax is a little bit prevented from tarnishing. If I don´t play it, it´s wraped up in a Mo's Protection Cloth.

I have to admit, it is a little work ca. 3-5 hours, but than it looks gourgeous and it will stay that way for a long long time.

RHE
User ID: 0185894 Feb 11th 8:10 AM
I have bought a Buescher C-Mel on Ebay, and want to clean it to.
But how do you "take it completly apart"? I'm little bit to try to do this, even if I didn't pay it that much..

mossite
User ID: 9440113 Feb 11th 8:30 AM
Just take of the whole mechanic. But be carefull, don´t force the screws. If the don´t come out easy, put some oil or rust remover on them and leave them this way for a while. Usualy, they come out very easy then.
I instantly put the screws and rods back in place. Since they are that old, they only fit perfect in the hole you screwed them out. Before I put them back in the hole I put a good drop of oil on them, so that nothing can rust or somthing like that.
After I put them in the bathtub or in the dish washer you have to make sure to dry everything up very carefully.
I leave the springs in! But be carefull. You either can put some cork on them, or you have to be carefull when you clean the sax. These dam... things hurt so bad!
I hope you could understand what i ment, it´s hard to describe these thing in a foreign language.

RHE
User ID: 0596854 Feb 11th 10:36 AM
Thanks Mossite!
My mothertong is French, if it's easier for you ;-)
I suppose you don't put the mechanic in the bath, but only the body? And you just clean softly the mechanic?

Lewis Pelham
User ID: 9614573 Feb 11th 11:18 AM
RHE.
When you take a saxophone completely to bits it is easy to think that you will remember the relative positions of all the bits. However, when you attempt to re-assemble the horn perhaps a few days later, it is not so easy. A tip is to thread the parts, in order, onto a wire as you take them off; one for the top stack & a second for the bottom stack. The "loose" keys such as the palm keys and r/h side keys are obvious. Hope this helps, plus the realisation that saxophones were not built by rocket scientists; if you have some mechanical nouce it is really not that difficult. Never use force.
I must confess to cheating with an old buescher in having the body sprayed with a high grade modern car lacquer after polishing & have never regretted it.

Lewis Pelham
User ID: 9614573 Feb 11th 11:21 AM
P.S. With my spelling I wish that I too could claim that English was not my first language! I really must review my postings prior to submitting them.

rhe
User ID: 0596854 Feb 12th 3:52 PM
Thanks to both of you! ..I hope to begin tomorrow and will write my personnal (and honnest) feeback.

mossite
User ID: 0777594 Feb 14th 1:32 AM
Rhe,

the first time I took a sax appart, I put all upper and the lower mechanics, that belong somehow together in seperat bags.

First i took of the single keycups. I put these all singel in little paper bags, and drew the sax on it and their position on the sax. That way I remembered, where to put them. I also put nunbers on the bags, so that I knew in which order I have taken the sax apart. Of course, put it back together is sometimes a little tricky.

But you know, the cups will only fit in one place, so you have to be patient it´s like a nice puzzle. First it took me quite a while to put it all back together, but now, it all goes very fast. Don´t worry it is absolutly normal, that you will have to take off parts again, since you cannot fit the other cups in place. That happens quite often.

To clean the mechanik and the cups, I have this liquied silver bath. I stick the longer mechanik parts in it, and rinse it in a different barrel with water. With the key cups I do almost the same. I fill a small dish with some of the silver bath and dip the key cups in it, but you have to be carefull. If you don´t want to put new pads in, watch that the pads don´t get in contact with this.

I clean the inside of the mechanic with this long things that you use to clean up pipes. The fit in there perfectly and take out the moist and dirt.

Before it put the rod back in the mechanic I put one or two drops of realy good oil in there. That works great.

I wish you luck!

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 2630464 Feb 14th 4:51 AM
Mo - great advice, I'll just add a bit. It's certainly a great idea to keep the 'top half' and the 'bottom half' bits together but seperate. I split mine up into two bags, top half and bottom half' (below G) That way , with the body, there are three 'lots', so it doesn't seem as much. I always get to clean the body, with those **!£#@$ springs, and my daughter cleans the keys (avoiding the pads) in exchange for my 'taxi service' and bottomless wallet. She says it's theraputic when there's nothing much on the TV..

Anyway -
(i) on the long sections, where the rods are long and there are many keys, you can't just thread bits on as you push the rod through - put them in place between the pillars first, as you'll find that the first bits can obstruct the later bits. The springs will make it a bit awkward (don't hook all the springs on yet, but just persevere, you can 'jiggle the bits around to make the long rod slice thro' easily, one key at a time.

ii) Watch out tho', on some saxes the odd spring doesn't 'hook' on, it has to go thro' a hole in the arm, that can be a pain if you forget it. And just occasionally (more so with clarinets) there just isn't enough room to hook the spring on afterwards, you have to do it before.

This can be the tricky bit, because once it's assembled you may want to re-bend a spring or three to adjust the action. Also don't forget to replace any bits of cork that may have fallen off when cleaning, the old cork will give a clue about thickness (I often just clean off the metal surface and slide a bit of 'pre-gleued' and shaped cork on once the sax is assembled

Also, especially on the top section, look at the 'tonehole' impression on the pads, the pad cup sizes don't always match the holes they cover, at least one biggish pad covers quite a small hole.

Spring hooks needn't cost a fortune. Those little plastic knitting/crochet hooks are great, and anything with a small flat end can have a little 'vee' filed in the middle of it to push springs instead of pulling. Plastic is better that metal, you can happily get quite stressed without risking scratching the newly cleaned metal body....

It's all very easy if you have just a little bit of mechanical aptitude. I've included links to internet 'repair-d.i.y. pages at -
http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/saxophones/repair-resources.htm

The only downside is those sharp springs..... Have a 'swear-box' near you, you'll have enough money to buy a new set of pads in no time ! It's easy, taken in logical stages, if an arthritic old geezer like me can do it - anyone can !

I mostly use 'Silvo' Tarnish Guard, use reasonably big lumps of the wadding, and clean off with good cotton cloth. Thread it around pillars and under springs and use a 'sawing' action. Don't forget to take a couple of 'before and after' pictures to make it all worthwhile.

RHE
User ID: 0596854 Feb 14th 10:36 AM
Thanks again!!
Alan, please don't forget we sometimes need a dictionnary to understand English sentences ;-))
I will print all this page and have it near me, when beginning, ...because I'm already late on my planning: not started at all this we ;-(

Attila
User ID: 1989294 Feb 14th 12:30 PM
...You remind me...Once I took my clarinet apart in order to clean it. Of course I couldn´t put it together and the repairman cost me around 300$...And I still don´t know how to do it...
By the way, it is for sale...:o)

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 2630464 Feb 14th 12:50 PM
RHE - I used to go to the USA a lot, as you tend to do in the computer industry.

In Boston I once saw an American > English / English > American dictionary, so you can probably get one from your local library.

Or just do a search in Google for ' English American dictionary ' and you have a choice of many..... Good Luck

Attila
User ID: 1989294 Feb 14th 2:31 PM
Kokopeli,
Do you know what it means in Finnish? Your ID? (Probably you know...or you don´t...)

Alan Tucker (UK)
User ID: 2630464 Feb 14th 2:45 PM
Go on Attila, tell us......

Attila
User ID: 1473814 Feb 15th 1:01 AM
It means "full game", "full play", "whole game" "whole play", or something like that.

TomGK
User ID: 8185963 Feb 15th 9:22 AM
The Native American Legeng of Kokopelli:
http://www.totalaccess.net/~kokopele/legend.html

TomGK
User ID: 8185963 Feb 15th 9:23 AM
That was intended to be Legend, not Legeng.

Next 20 Messages

Kokopeli User ID: 7705853	Feb 3rd 2:27 PM Thirty years ago, I learnt to play on a Buescher True Tone C Melody (#177177 circa 1925) while at school. Amazingly, I've tracked down the very same horn and have been reunited with a very old friend... The chances of this happening must be pretty remote and I'm amazed at how familiar it feels after all this time. It's still got its original case (complete with a new handle that my dad fixed in 1975!) and even has the orginal mouthpiece, cap and lig. It's even got most of the original white pads. Although the key work had been removed when I picked it up (stalled restoration project I think) I reassembled it as soon as I got home and it plays very well considering. Sadly, the silver plate is pitted and I'm wondering how best to clean it up. Any suggestions gratefully received.
TomGK User ID: 9189423	Feb 3rd 5:06 PM Hello Kokopeli, How many kids do you have? ;) I have used "silver cloth" sold at music supply stores to clean silver plated instruments. Unfotunately, pitting is difficult to get rid of. If you buff too much you may eliminate the plating altoghether and some of the brass as well. Tom
kokopeli User ID: 7705853	Feb 5th 2:21 PM lol Tom, I got carried away in the excitement, but since you ask, three by different fathers. I tried a silver cloth and some silver dip - the horn looks a treat!
mossite User ID: 8255903	Feb 6th 6:26 AM When i have a real bad looking horn, the first thing I do is taking it completly apart. Than I use an old toothbrush and liquid silver bath and treat the whole body with this. The tarnish vanishs real quick and good. Than I rinse it of with warm water in the bathtop or sometimes i but it in the dishwasher. C-Mels fit in a dishwasher. I dry it of realy good. Than i have a marverlous polishing paste wich I put very thin on the sax and polish it of with a silver cloth. The sax now looks "as new". The same treatment for the keys, only with the difference that you have to be carefull that the pads don´t get wet. Then I use a very good oil and put it all back together. The liquid silver bath,the polishing paste and my silver cloth are all treated with an anti tarnish stuff. So the sax is a little bit prevented from tarnishing. If I don´t play it, it´s wraped up in a Mo's Protection Cloth. I have to admit, it is a little work ca. 3-5 hours, but than it looks gourgeous and it will stay that way for a long long time.
RHE User ID: 0185894	Feb 11th 8:10 AM I have bought a Buescher C-Mel on Ebay, and want to clean it to. But how do you "take it completly apart"? I'm little bit to try to do this, even if I didn't pay it that much..
mossite User ID: 9440113	Feb 11th 8:30 AM Just take of the whole mechanic. But be carefull, don´t force the screws. If the don´t come out easy, put some oil or rust remover on them and leave them this way for a while. Usualy, they come out very easy then. I instantly put the screws and rods back in place. Since they are that old, they only fit perfect in the hole you screwed them out. Before I put them back in the hole I put a good drop of oil on them, so that nothing can rust or somthing like that. After I put them in the bathtub or in the dish washer you have to make sure to dry everything up very carefully. I leave the springs in! But be carefull. You either can put some cork on them, or you have to be carefull when you clean the sax. These dam... things hurt so bad! I hope you could understand what i ment, it´s hard to describe these thing in a foreign language.
RHE User ID: 0596854	Feb 11th 10:36 AM Thanks Mossite! My mothertong is French, if it's easier for you ;-) I suppose you don't put the mechanic in the bath, but only the body? And you just clean softly the mechanic?
Lewis Pelham User ID: 9614573	Feb 11th 11:18 AM RHE. When you take a saxophone completely to bits it is easy to think that you will remember the relative positions of all the bits. However, when you attempt to re-assemble the horn perhaps a few days later, it is not so easy. A tip is to thread the parts, in order, onto a wire as you take them off; one for the top stack & a second for the bottom stack. The "loose" keys such as the palm keys and r/h side keys are obvious. Hope this helps, plus the realisation that saxophones were not built by rocket scientists; if you have some mechanical nouce it is really not that difficult. Never use force. I must confess to cheating with an old buescher in having the body sprayed with a high grade modern car lacquer after polishing & have never regretted it.
Lewis Pelham User ID: 9614573	Feb 11th 11:21 AM P.S. With my spelling I wish that I too could claim that English was not my first language! I really must review my postings prior to submitting them.
rhe User ID: 0596854	Feb 12th 3:52 PM Thanks to both of you! ..I hope to begin tomorrow and will write my personnal (and honnest) feeback.
mossite User ID: 0777594	Feb 14th 1:32 AM Rhe, the first time I took a sax appart, I put all upper and the lower mechanics, that belong somehow together in seperat bags. First i took of the single keycups. I put these all singel in little paper bags, and drew the sax on it and their position on the sax. That way I remembered, where to put them. I also put nunbers on the bags, so that I knew in which order I have taken the sax apart. Of course, put it back together is sometimes a little tricky. But you know, the cups will only fit in one place, so you have to be patient it´s like a nice puzzle. First it took me quite a while to put it all back together, but now, it all goes very fast. Don´t worry it is absolutly normal, that you will have to take off parts again, since you cannot fit the other cups in place. That happens quite often. To clean the mechanik and the cups, I have this liquied silver bath. I stick the longer mechanik parts in it, and rinse it in a different barrel with water. With the key cups I do almost the same. I fill a small dish with some of the silver bath and dip the key cups in it, but you have to be carefull. If you don´t want to put new pads in, watch that the pads don´t get in contact with this. I clean the inside of the mechanic with this long things that you use to clean up pipes. The fit in there perfectly and take out the moist and dirt. Before it put the rod back in the mechanic I put one or two drops of realy good oil in there. That works great. I wish you luck!
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 2630464	Feb 14th 4:51 AM Mo - great advice, I'll just add a bit. It's certainly a great idea to keep the 'top half' and the 'bottom half' bits together but seperate. I split mine up into two bags, top half and bottom half' (below G) That way , with the body, there are three 'lots', so it doesn't seem as much. I always get to clean the body, with those **!£#@$ springs, and my daughter cleans the keys (avoiding the pads) in exchange for my 'taxi service' and bottomless wallet. She says it's theraputic when there's nothing much on the TV.. Anyway - (i) on the long sections, where the rods are long and there are many keys, you can't just thread bits on as you push the rod through - put them in place between the pillars first, as you'll find that the first bits can obstruct the later bits. The springs will make it a bit awkward (don't hook all the springs on yet, but just persevere, you can 'jiggle the bits around to make the long rod slice thro' easily, one key at a time. ii) Watch out tho', on some saxes the odd spring doesn't 'hook' on, it has to go thro' a hole in the arm, that can be a pain if you forget it. And just occasionally (more so with clarinets) there just isn't enough room to hook the spring on afterwards, you have to do it before. This can be the tricky bit, because once it's assembled you may want to re-bend a spring or three to adjust the action. Also don't forget to replace any bits of cork that may have fallen off when cleaning, the old cork will give a clue about thickness (I often just clean off the metal surface and slide a bit of 'pre-gleued' and shaped cork on once the sax is assembled Also, especially on the top section, look at the 'tonehole' impression on the pads, the pad cup sizes don't always match the holes they cover, at least one biggish pad covers quite a small hole. Spring hooks needn't cost a fortune. Those little plastic knitting/crochet hooks are great, and anything with a small flat end can have a little 'vee' filed in the middle of it to push springs instead of pulling. Plastic is better that metal, you can happily get quite stressed without risking scratching the newly cleaned metal body.... It's all very easy if you have just a little bit of mechanical aptitude. I've included links to internet 'repair-d.i.y. pages at - http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/saxophones/repair-resources.htm The only downside is those sharp springs..... Have a 'swear-box' near you, you'll have enough money to buy a new set of pads in no time ! It's easy, taken in logical stages, if an arthritic old geezer like me can do it - anyone can ! I mostly use 'Silvo' Tarnish Guard, use reasonably big lumps of the wadding, and clean off with good cotton cloth. Thread it around pillars and under springs and use a 'sawing' action. Don't forget to take a couple of 'before and after' pictures to make it all worthwhile.
RHE User ID: 0596854	Feb 14th 10:36 AM Thanks again!! Alan, please don't forget we sometimes need a dictionnary to understand English sentences ;-)) I will print all this page and have it near me, when beginning, ...because I'm already late on my planning: not started at all this we ;-(
Attila User ID: 1989294	Feb 14th 12:30 PM ...You remind me...Once I took my clarinet apart in order to clean it. Of course I couldn´t put it together and the repairman cost me around 300$...And I still don´t know how to do it... By the way, it is for sale...:o)
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 2630464	Feb 14th 12:50 PM RHE - I used to go to the USA a lot, as you tend to do in the computer industry. In Boston I once saw an American > English / English > American dictionary, so you can probably get one from your local library. Or just do a search in Google for ' English American dictionary ' and you have a choice of many..... Good Luck
Attila User ID: 1989294	Feb 14th 2:31 PM Kokopeli, Do you know what it means in Finnish? Your ID? (Probably you know...or you don´t...)
Alan Tucker (UK) User ID: 2630464	Feb 14th 2:45 PM Go on Attila, tell us......
Attila User ID: 1473814	Feb 15th 1:01 AM It means "full game", "full play", "whole game" "whole play", or something like that.
TomGK User ID: 8185963	Feb 15th 9:22 AM The Native American Legeng of Kokopelli: http://www.totalaccess.net/~kokopele/legend.html
TomGK User ID: 8185963	Feb 15th 9:23 AM That was intended to be Legend, not Legeng.