C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Mouthpieces Reeds and Ligatures / mouthpieces in "C "arsenal

Next 20 Messages

jazzbug1
User ID: 1836024 Apr 19th 2:13 PM
I am now playing a Holton Wiedoeft model C Melody, as mentioned in my recent blab. I rarely play R+B anymore, and if I do, its the trusty Conn 10M. However, in my jazz performances, I am using more C Melody. I have found the following mouthpieces very satisfactory:
1. Holton metal (rubber? coated). A classic dark sound which fits any C melody very well. It has beautiful large chamber sonority, but with a brightness from the metal. These pop up on EBay for $40-60.00. I also use one on my alto. They can be pushed to generate an aggressive sound when needed. Suggest opening the tip a bit.
2. Goldbeck metal. A bit more edge than the Holton and not quite as full. A more modern sound. I have a Goldbeck alto, but it is not capable of the volume of the Holton alto. The Goldbeck soprano is really great. The Goldbeck tenor produces a rather characterless sound on my 10M, almost like a student mouthpiece. I sold the tenor model on EBay. The Goldbeck baritone produces a beautiful warm sound on my "Chu Berry" model Conn. It is the best baritone mouthpiece I have ever played. Goldbeck mouthpieces are often expensive, but usually less than $100. I would like to try some of the new C melody mouthpieces, but don't want to spend the $$ and find out I don't like them. "C" you around.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Apr 19th 4:42 PM
I think you should drag yourself, kicking and screaming (if need be) quite a few decades towards current mouthpiece design. A 20's C-Mel is a fine instrument, but 20's mouthpieces ? Goldbeck has a bit more edge ?

C'mon, be serious, behave..........

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8945823 Apr 19th 7:46 PM
I own one of the Holton metal-hard rubber mouthpieces for C melody that jazzbug1 mentions. It is nice, but nowhere near as good as the more modern ones (or my Selmer metal short-shank Jazz model).

jazzbug1
User ID: 9663323 Apr 19th 11:56 PM
You folks don't know me. I still drive a Studebaker.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Apr 20th 5:28 AM
jazzbug - don't take my rhetoric too seriously ( I know you don't...). If 'retro' suits you, then retro it must be. I have one left (of what was) a pair of 20's Naujoks Mclaughlin ebonite C-Mel mouthpieces with inlaid metal table.

It is the only authentic 20's C-Mel piece that I can enjoy, sad that I sold the other one, if you can see one, grab it. Can't be opened up a lot because the (silver ?) insert isn't very thick. From memory, I think "Bb" also had one, which he did open up a tad.

I also do have a Goldbeck with the fluted sides (might be tenor tho' - has a B or 8 on the side, but is quite a narrow lay), and one of those Holton's - so I have tried them, not just spouting off. We need to be diverse, it's in our nature as enthusiasts.. And how could I argue with a Python (or colloquially "Pithon") fan ?

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8945823 Apr 20th 6:05 AM
jazzbug1....Ain't nothin' wrong with a Studebaker! Is it an Avanti?

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8945823 Apr 20th 10:13 PM
jazzbug1....How do you like your Rudy Model C? I've heard that they are good solid horns. Do you agree? I've always thought about purchasing one. Every once in a while you see a nice one on Ebay. Usually at a decent price. Please post your opinion here. I would fondly appreciate it.

jazzbug1
User ID: 8882983 Apr 20th 10:50 PM
I have a 1950 Studebaker Champion, the model with the funny looking (that's why I like it) bullet-shaped front end. You UK guys will like to know that I rode a Matchless 500 single for 20 years. Very comfortable, always started, and was quite rare, even when new. I miss riding, but the traffic is too heavy. One gets more cautious as one gets older. The Studie gets 25 miles per gallon in overdrive. Since I play mostly retro, its always a cool entrance for the concert. I am retro because my Father played in the late 1920s--1930s, my teacher studied under Rudy Wiedoeft and Merle Johnson, and for the first 30 years of playing, I usually played with musicians 2X or #3X my age. I take an interest in modern styles and I am very happy that most jazz has come back to a listenable style, much like the mid 50s. The era of anger, screeching, and honking is mostly over (Thank you C God). My teacher always stressed the 1920s method, and so do I. That is, use a narrow tip opening (3--4), which keeps the lower end easily playable. For aggressive playing, there is the option of a #4--6 reed, which with the peashooter mouthpiece, still allows for a good tone on the bottom, instead of the breathy over blowing I hear many younger players doing. Ask a player with a #6 mouthpiece and a #4 reed to play a soft ballad. I've yet to hear one that could allow much for expression and gentleness. Many of the players I know who were blowing monster mouthpieces in the 1960s----1980s have switched over to a more conservative set-up.
My Rudy Holton is the nicest looking (gold keywork) and best-playing C Melody I have ever played. Holton was a smaller producer and the workmanship and plating on the late 20s---30s is outstanding. Try to get a serial # over 25000. Some from this era had black pearl keys, which looks very striking. I don't have a problem with the odd keys on the Holtons. They're not in the way. I finished a Conn Chu Berry alto, which is on EBay, and my Holton gold Rudy model alto still has more volume and brightness.I have tried several of these classic Conns, and still prefer the Holton. I love my 10M and "Chu" baritone, but for altos and C Melodies, I much prefer the Holton. Those intonation rumors may apply to early horns (#10,000 or under). I love this chat site and I believe I have set my record for rambling this long without one lame joke.

Jungle Jim
User ID: 8332933 Apr 23rd 12:49 PM
jazzbug1 - You sound like a really sincere and likable person. I loved your above post. It tells a lot about you. I can remember what that atudebaker Champion looks like as If it was yesterday. You seem to have a good life going for you. All of your posts are sincere and with no bitterness or animosity toward anyone. I wish I could say that about myself. I also love this chat site. It's special. If you can understand what I mean. It's great to come across a person like you. Keep posting here. Please!

Jungle Jim
User ID: 8332933 Apr 23rd 12:51 PM
jazzbug - Forgive the misspelling of Studebaker. It was a mistyping error.

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8945823 Apr 23rd 4:29 PM
jazzbug1....I agree with !@#$%^&*()_+ (Jungle Jim). You seem like a Cool Dude with a good knowledge of saxophones and a smooth delivery. Keep on Keepin' on! We need the mellow level headed guys to keep us in line.

ESB
User ID: 8785553 Apr 23rd 4:39 PM
So I have started rotating tenor pieces to the Martin C in the stable and this is what I have found:

1. Aquila Sax C Metalpro 7 - I love it. I have said lots about it. The 6 is good, but the 7 is great

2. Meyer 6m ebonite tenor - big, brash sound with a rolling undertone. Really opened out the bottom end of the Martin.

3. Meyer 8m ebonite tenor - modified with extra baffle, enlarged chamber and wider tip - TOO BIG for the horn. Felt uncontrolled, buzzy and really just too much for the Martin.

4. Otto Link 6* super tone master tenor - rich, bright, large....but a little muffled. Intonation was spot on throughout the horn, but I felt like I was playing through a sock.

5. Wolfe Tayne 8 metal tenor - really, really, really dark. Does the same thing to my Martin Tenor. Round and boistrous, good intonation.

6. Meyer ebonite 5m tenor - rich, warm, slightly muffled, almost mysterious. I like this one alot.

jazzbug1
User ID: 9627953 Apr 24th 12:35 AM
Thanks for the compliments. I have a very corny sense of humor and tend to over cherish the past, so I enjoy all you fellows who have a modern approach to playing and also have a more cutting sarcastic sense of humor. It takes all kinds to make a unique world, and "artsy" people who play or create in any way are more creative if they let their individual personality be fully involved in their creativity. I have no idea how you can play a #8 mouthpiece quietly, with a subtle lower register. My compliments if you can.

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Apr 24th 3:42 AM
Can come in useful for quiet and breathy, with a RR#3 and my Lawton 8*BB - guess it's what you develop into over the years.

I had to go that way for balance because of soul/fusion/jazz-funk with other saxes and loud brass (ouch|) frequently on the same mic in the early days (one of those big Shures...), but also needed to have lower-level control wth the same setup in the (relatively minor amount of) studio work and of coursehome practise, so now I find it easier to 'gently' work the same setup.

Bit like having a V8 and just purring along, but with the power and 'growl' available ! Wonderful thing, dynamics - pity more players don't make more use of 'em......

soybean
User ID: 8827223 Nov 16th 4:59 PM
I think there's a Holton metal & rubber mouthpiece in my future. The Holton C-mel coming from eBay had a red mpc with metal insert in the case. I also bought a new C-melody mouthpiece from David Jary. Here's what he says about it: "large chamber with a custom cast, shaped and polished, medium baffle. This combination creates a more modern, full sound with good volume and projection. Most of the old C Melody mouthpieces had big chambers and very small baffles with almost no projection and they required a VERY stiff reed because the tip openings were so small. This .104" tip opening/facing has been custom shaped so that it is free blowing and provides excellent response and overall performance. You get excellent highs and a nice rich bottom end that blows and responds easily." I'll post a review in a few weeks.

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Nov 16th 5:30 PM
soybean, I'll be interested in that review...

Soybean
User ID: 9844073 Nov 25th 1:39 PM
I received the Jary C-melody mouthpiece. It's not for me. Actually, it's a very good mouthpiece and everything Mr Jary claims it is. I'm just used to playing high baffled tenor pieces. This Jary blows more like a Otto Link… free and big. Not too dark either. It has a really nice buzz that's musical. And, it's a real C-mel mpc so it sits at the correct place on the cork.

I also went thru all of these tenor mouthpieces on the C-mel: Berg Larsen metal (about 7 of these from 90 to 110 tip), Berg Larsen HR 100, Brillhart Levelair (2 of these), Link stm 8-NY, Rico royal Graftonite M7, M9 & M11, Jary C-mel 104 tip and the stock Buescher C-mel piece. The best mouthpiece turned out to be the Rico Royal Graftonite M7. This mpc never really worked on my tenor, but i love it on the C-mel. It is bright, loud and blows like a "mini-tenor" as Alan has coined. My mouthpiece search is no where near being finished… plently of other tenor piecees to try, but the Rico is the best so far.

Soybean
User ID: 9844073 Nov 25th 1:42 PM
I should also mention that any tenor mpc you use on a C-mel will have to be pushed in really far on the cork… anywhere from 3/4 of the way to all the way in! This means you won't want to have a thick cork layer.

soybean
User ID: 0401124 Nov 26th 12:49 AM
One more addendum. After doing some research online, I'm not sure if this mouthpiece is a Graftonite or a Metalite. Both were made by Rico Royal. The number on mine (M7) does not match the graftonite numbering, but does seem to match the earlier Metalite numbers. Funny, because the box the mouthpiece came in says Graftonite… so maybe this was transitional?? Either way, it's the plastic mouthpiece with the baffle in it. You guys probably know what I'm talking about. ;-)

bruce bailey
User ID: 9690803 Nov 26th 12:53 AM
Did you try any alto pieces? As I mentioned over at SOTW, I have better luck with my alto Super session than anything else on my Buescher. I still feel that a C is more alto-like than tenor.

Next 20 Messages

jazzbug1 User ID: 1836024	Apr 19th 2:13 PM I am now playing a Holton Wiedoeft model C Melody, as mentioned in my recent blab. I rarely play R+B anymore, and if I do, its the trusty Conn 10M. However, in my jazz performances, I am using more C Melody. I have found the following mouthpieces very satisfactory: 1. Holton metal (rubber? coated). A classic dark sound which fits any C melody very well. It has beautiful large chamber sonority, but with a brightness from the metal. These pop up on EBay for $40-60.00. I also use one on my alto. They can be pushed to generate an aggressive sound when needed. Suggest opening the tip a bit. 2. Goldbeck metal. A bit more edge than the Holton and not quite as full. A more modern sound. I have a Goldbeck alto, but it is not capable of the volume of the Holton alto. The Goldbeck soprano is really great. The Goldbeck tenor produces a rather characterless sound on my 10M, almost like a student mouthpiece. I sold the tenor model on EBay. The Goldbeck baritone produces a beautiful warm sound on my "Chu Berry" model Conn. It is the best baritone mouthpiece I have ever played. Goldbeck mouthpieces are often expensive, but usually less than $100. I would like to try some of the new C melody mouthpieces, but don't want to spend the $$ and find out I don't like them. "C" you around.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Apr 19th 4:42 PM I think you should drag yourself, kicking and screaming (if need be) quite a few decades towards current mouthpiece design. A 20's C-Mel is a fine instrument, but 20's mouthpieces ? Goldbeck has a bit more edge ? C'mon, be serious, behave..........
Captain Muggles User ID: 8945823	Apr 19th 7:46 PM I own one of the Holton metal-hard rubber mouthpieces for C melody that jazzbug1 mentions. It is nice, but nowhere near as good as the more modern ones (or my Selmer metal short-shank Jazz model).
jazzbug1 User ID: 9663323	Apr 19th 11:56 PM You folks don't know me. I still drive a Studebaker.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Apr 20th 5:28 AM jazzbug - don't take my rhetoric too seriously ( I know you don't...). If 'retro' suits you, then retro it must be. I have one left (of what was) a pair of 20's Naujoks Mclaughlin ebonite C-Mel mouthpieces with inlaid metal table. It is the only authentic 20's C-Mel piece that I can enjoy, sad that I sold the other one, if you can see one, grab it. Can't be opened up a lot because the (silver ?) insert isn't very thick. From memory, I think "Bb" also had one, which he did open up a tad. I also do have a Goldbeck with the fluted sides (might be tenor tho' - has a B or 8 on the side, but is quite a narrow lay), and one of those Holton's - so I have tried them, not just spouting off. We need to be diverse, it's in our nature as enthusiasts.. And how could I argue with a Python (or colloquially "Pithon") fan ?
Captain Muggles User ID: 8945823	Apr 20th 6:05 AM jazzbug1....Ain't nothin' wrong with a Studebaker! Is it an Avanti?
Captain Muggles User ID: 8945823	Apr 20th 10:13 PM jazzbug1....How do you like your Rudy Model C? I've heard that they are good solid horns. Do you agree? I've always thought about purchasing one. Every once in a while you see a nice one on Ebay. Usually at a decent price. Please post your opinion here. I would fondly appreciate it.
jazzbug1 User ID: 8882983	Apr 20th 10:50 PM I have a 1950 Studebaker Champion, the model with the funny looking (that's why I like it) bullet-shaped front end. You UK guys will like to know that I rode a Matchless 500 single for 20 years. Very comfortable, always started, and was quite rare, even when new. I miss riding, but the traffic is too heavy. One gets more cautious as one gets older. The Studie gets 25 miles per gallon in overdrive. Since I play mostly retro, its always a cool entrance for the concert. I am retro because my Father played in the late 1920s--1930s, my teacher studied under Rudy Wiedoeft and Merle Johnson, and for the first 30 years of playing, I usually played with musicians 2X or #3X my age. I take an interest in modern styles and I am very happy that most jazz has come back to a listenable style, much like the mid 50s. The era of anger, screeching, and honking is mostly over (Thank you C God). My teacher always stressed the 1920s method, and so do I. That is, use a narrow tip opening (3--4), which keeps the lower end easily playable. For aggressive playing, there is the option of a #4--6 reed, which with the peashooter mouthpiece, still allows for a good tone on the bottom, instead of the breathy over blowing I hear many younger players doing. Ask a player with a #6 mouthpiece and a #4 reed to play a soft ballad. I've yet to hear one that could allow much for expression and gentleness. Many of the players I know who were blowing monster mouthpieces in the 1960s----1980s have switched over to a more conservative set-up. My Rudy Holton is the nicest looking (gold keywork) and best-playing C Melody I have ever played. Holton was a smaller producer and the workmanship and plating on the late 20s---30s is outstanding. Try to get a serial # over 25000. Some from this era had black pearl keys, which looks very striking. I don't have a problem with the odd keys on the Holtons. They're not in the way. I finished a Conn Chu Berry alto, which is on EBay, and my Holton gold Rudy model alto still has more volume and brightness.I have tried several of these classic Conns, and still prefer the Holton. I love my 10M and "Chu" baritone, but for altos and C Melodies, I much prefer the Holton. Those intonation rumors may apply to early horns (#10,000 or under). I love this chat site and I believe I have set my record for rambling this long without one lame joke.
Jungle Jim User ID: 8332933	Apr 23rd 12:49 PM jazzbug1 - You sound like a really sincere and likable person. I loved your above post. It tells a lot about you. I can remember what that atudebaker Champion looks like as If it was yesterday. You seem to have a good life going for you. All of your posts are sincere and with no bitterness or animosity toward anyone. I wish I could say that about myself. I also love this chat site. It's special. If you can understand what I mean. It's great to come across a person like you. Keep posting here. Please!
Jungle Jim User ID: 8332933	Apr 23rd 12:51 PM jazzbug - Forgive the misspelling of Studebaker. It was a mistyping error.
Captain Muggles User ID: 8945823	Apr 23rd 4:29 PM jazzbug1....I agree with !@#$%^&*()_+ (Jungle Jim). You seem like a Cool Dude with a good knowledge of saxophones and a smooth delivery. Keep on Keepin' on! We need the mellow level headed guys to keep us in line.
ESB User ID: 8785553	Apr 23rd 4:39 PM So I have started rotating tenor pieces to the Martin C in the stable and this is what I have found: 1. Aquila Sax C Metalpro 7 - I love it. I have said lots about it. The 6 is good, but the 7 is great 2. Meyer 6m ebonite tenor - big, brash sound with a rolling undertone. Really opened out the bottom end of the Martin. 3. Meyer 8m ebonite tenor - modified with extra baffle, enlarged chamber and wider tip - TOO BIG for the horn. Felt uncontrolled, buzzy and really just too much for the Martin. 4. Otto Link 6* super tone master tenor - rich, bright, large....but a little muffled. Intonation was spot on throughout the horn, but I felt like I was playing through a sock. 5. Wolfe Tayne 8 metal tenor - really, really, really dark. Does the same thing to my Martin Tenor. Round and boistrous, good intonation. 6. Meyer ebonite 5m tenor - rich, warm, slightly muffled, almost mysterious. I like this one alot.
jazzbug1 User ID: 9627953	Apr 24th 12:35 AM Thanks for the compliments. I have a very corny sense of humor and tend to over cherish the past, so I enjoy all you fellows who have a modern approach to playing and also have a more cutting sarcastic sense of humor. It takes all kinds to make a unique world, and "artsy" people who play or create in any way are more creative if they let their individual personality be fully involved in their creativity. I have no idea how you can play a #8 mouthpiece quietly, with a subtle lower register. My compliments if you can.
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Apr 24th 3:42 AM Can come in useful for quiet and breathy, with a RR#3 and my Lawton 8*BB - guess it's what you develop into over the years. I had to go that way for balance because of soul/fusion/jazz-funk with other saxes and loud brass (ouch\|) frequently on the same mic in the early days (one of those big Shures...), but also needed to have lower-level control wth the same setup in the (relatively minor amount of) studio work and of coursehome practise, so now I find it easier to 'gently' work the same setup. Bit like having a V8 and just purring along, but with the power and 'growl' available ! Wonderful thing, dynamics - pity more players don't make more use of 'em......
soybean User ID: 8827223	Nov 16th 4:59 PM I think there's a Holton metal & rubber mouthpiece in my future. The Holton C-mel coming from eBay had a red mpc with metal insert in the case. I also bought a new C-melody mouthpiece from David Jary. Here's what he says about it: "large chamber with a custom cast, shaped and polished, medium baffle. This combination creates a more modern, full sound with good volume and projection. Most of the old C Melody mouthpieces had big chambers and very small baffles with almost no projection and they required a VERY stiff reed because the tip openings were so small. This .104" tip opening/facing has been custom shaped so that it is free blowing and provides excellent response and overall performance. You get excellent highs and a nice rich bottom end that blows and responds easily." I'll post a review in a few weeks.
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Nov 16th 5:30 PM soybean, I'll be interested in that review...
Soybean User ID: 9844073	Nov 25th 1:39 PM I received the Jary C-melody mouthpiece. It's not for me. Actually, it's a very good mouthpiece and everything Mr Jary claims it is. I'm just used to playing high baffled tenor pieces. This Jary blows more like a Otto Link… free and big. Not too dark either. It has a really nice buzz that's musical. And, it's a real C-mel mpc so it sits at the correct place on the cork. I also went thru all of these tenor mouthpieces on the C-mel: Berg Larsen metal (about 7 of these from 90 to 110 tip), Berg Larsen HR 100, Brillhart Levelair (2 of these), Link stm 8-NY, Rico royal Graftonite M7, M9 & M11, Jary C-mel 104 tip and the stock Buescher C-mel piece. The best mouthpiece turned out to be the Rico Royal Graftonite M7. This mpc never really worked on my tenor, but i love it on the C-mel. It is bright, loud and blows like a "mini-tenor" as Alan has coined. My mouthpiece search is no where near being finished… plently of other tenor piecees to try, but the Rico is the best so far.
Soybean User ID: 9844073	Nov 25th 1:42 PM I should also mention that any tenor mpc you use on a C-mel will have to be pushed in really far on the cork… anywhere from 3/4 of the way to all the way in! This means you won't want to have a thick cork layer.
soybean User ID: 0401124	Nov 26th 12:49 AM One more addendum. After doing some research online, I'm not sure if this mouthpiece is a Graftonite or a Metalite. Both were made by Rico Royal. The number on mine (M7) does not match the graftonite numbering, but does seem to match the earlier Metalite numbers. Funny, because the box the mouthpiece came in says Graftonite… so maybe this was transitional?? Either way, it's the plastic mouthpiece with the baffle in it. You guys probably know what I'm talking about. ;-)
bruce bailey User ID: 9690803	Nov 26th 12:53 AM Did you try any alto pieces? As I mentioned over at SOTW, I have better luck with my alto Super session than anything else on my Buescher. I still feel that a C is more alto-like than tenor.