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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / Looking for a C-Mel

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Toxic Oreo
User ID: 8785553 Feb 27th 2:15 PM
I am a young saxophone collector of sorts and I am looking for a c-mel to add to my ranks. I already have 3 vintage horns that I gig with and am looking for a different sound, something more laid back for use in both an old school blues band and in a couple local jazz ensembles. Ebay is not helping me in the least as the only listed c-mels are sniped from me within the final few minutes of the auction (I just lost a buescher by $5 with 5 seconds left on the auction). The only catch is I don't have a ton of money, and want a functioning horn. Any places other than local pawn shops and Ebay on where to find this ever elusive horn?

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 9th 6:54 AM
True, true, and true......

et al
User ID: 0262034 Mar 9th 8:01 AM
Alan (et al) - Our straight neck Conn's are fine. But I'm sure that we would not mind having a Martin or King in our stable. As long as it was Satin Silver with Gold wash bell and Gold plated keys and rods. (That's a fetish that we have). But the fact of the matter (in our opinion) is that a good player can make any brand of horn sound good as long as that horn has inherent good intonation and the player has the talent and uses the proper reed-mouthpiece combination uniquely suited to him or her. Too much inference is placed on the brand of horn. When there is much more involved in the solution than that. That is only our opinion. But who are we? (et al I guess).

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 9th 9:03 AM
We have heard, oh so many times, as nauseum, that it is all down to the player who can play any horn & sound good.
To some degree this is true but no-one yet has answered the question "why do the vast majority of top line pros use, and always have used, Selmers"?
My Conn C Mel was bland.
My Buescher TT C Mel is robust.
My R&C tenor is rich and colourful.
My Grassi tenor sounds exactly like a Selmer.
ALL with the same mouthpiece reed and lig.
They all sound very different from each other.
We may think that we sound the same but I believe that it is the STYLE of the player, not the sound of the horn which is identical and instantly recognisable.
My wife can tell, from two floors up, with unfailing accuracy, which saxophone I am playing, and she is not a musician; evidently her hearing is more accurate than many who claim to be. She however, is not an expert so she must be wrong.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 9th 9:09 AM
Jungle Jim.
You talk of your silver with gold keywork fetish.... have you perchance any other fetish which you would care to share with us? :-))

et al
User ID: 0262034 Mar 9th 11:29 AM
Why do so many pros use Selmers? One reason is the constant bombardment of advertisements for about 40 years or more for Selmers in ALL major trade magazines et al (There's that abbreviation again) Downbeat, Metronome, Jazziz, etc. who give these famous musicans free horns for their endorsement of the Selmer product. If I named them all, it would take a lot of space. (about 50 or so top name jazz musicians from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. So many, that the young musician coming up was brainwashed to think they were the best. They are ONE of the best, but certainly not THE best. I figured this out early in life when I saw The same musicians who advertised Selmer play in person in the Philadelphia jazz clubs using horns other than Selmer, even though they endorsed Selmer. Zoot Sims, using a King; Johnny Hodges using a Silver Buescher alto; Stan Getz using an SML at the Red Hill Inn in New Jersey and many more. Grover Washington Junior endorsed H. Couf but used whatever he pleased (usually not H. Couf). I traded him EVEN UP a curved Silver Buescher soprano for an H. Couf Straight soprano. The Couf was worth about $3000.00 in 1981 when I got it from him. (It was their top of the line model, I believe it was an Eterna.) It was so bad that I sold it in about 3 months time. But at that time Couf had an advertising campaign going where they were giving horns to all the major horn players that would endorse them. But I digress. By the way, Maybe your wife might be wrong. I don't know. Other fetishes? Red headed women with pale skin and freckles.

Toxic OReo
User ID: 8785553 Mar 9th 12:13 PM
Holy crap I love redheads.

And freckles.

Which is why I am with a German girl with blonde hair...

Wait, that makes no sense. DAMMIT!

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 9th 12:15 PM
Topic finally vanished over the horizon...

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 9th 12:51 PM
et al (AKA Jungle Jim).
So, it's all down to advertising! Were this so then we would all be driving Fords.(shudder)
I would suggest that the real preference for Selmers is the keywork. You will notice that all the standards are written in flat keys. This is to avoid the horrendous L/H little finger (I refuse to say pinkie) table of the American horns where an operation to shorten the left little finger was necessary to reach low C#...a ghastly system.
Selmer, with the advent of the Balanced Action saxophone in 1935 put all the axles down the centre of the horn resulting in a far more ergonomic instrument. Meantime the Americans persisted with their ghastly clunky system where low C# worked back to front; beautiful sound however in the case of Conn 10ms and King Super 20s and a few others.
It was, I propose, the # friendly keywork that resulted in the domination by Selmer.
Playing one of those new fangled Rock and Roll songs in E or B, which horn would you choose?
Shew me any modern horn that does not adopt the "axles down the centre" layout initiated by Selmer.
The reason I play a Rampone & Cazzani is that it uses 10M bore dimentions with Selmer keywork...best of all worlds.
Red headed women with pale skin is not a fetish but a fantasy.
Ukebert. Down to you to bring the topic back on line. :-))

Ken uk
User ID: 1689844 Mar 9th 2:44 PM
Recently bought a selmer mark 6 tenor. Really great sound, but I still prefer the key work of my Conn. I'm just not used to that little finger key cluster yet.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 9th 4:12 PM
et al - I have two real (practical issues) that stop even my fine musicianship from being comfortable playing straight-neck Conns, and therefore rendering them awkward to play. My first criteria with any instrument is that it's interface with me should be seamless - i.e. we should be as one.

#1 - I am 'five foot and a gnats' tall, with proportionally short arms. i feel like I'm playing a straight-neck Conn C-mel that's a size loo long for me, full stretch and more..... I guess all you "happy-straight-neckers" are more towards the six-foot end of the scale, with arms like orangutan's ?

#2 - the micro-tuner on the straight-neck Conn will not allow my tenor Lawton 8*BB (a real mans mouthpiece, from the UK)) to go on far enough to be in tune, nor my Berg, nor my Link....

I have, as project #33, scheduled for mid-2018, a straight neck nickle/nickel Conn, but which came with a replacement curved neck . That sax blew a storm, with an amazing range of sounds, until the bell fell off..... Funnily enough, no lacquer or silver Conn since, has sounded quite as good with the same curved neck and mouthpiece setup, so maybe it's a special sax.

So, I don't have a real downer on Conns, In fact I have a gold-plated curved-neck Artist Conn C-Mel as project #26 - just to say that the slightly mellower sound with a straight-neck, combined with those two practicalities detailed above, lead me to say "pass" when it comes to them.

I could still, if it came to it, playone, and "knock 'em dead" as they say - just that I wouldn't feel comfy, and I couldn't use my favourite mouthpieces because of the shank length. OK ?

So, you stick with your silver sax and gold action fetish, and I'll stick with my curved necks and comfort, and we'll all be happy.........

=============

Ken - MkVI players devote a lifetime to tootling comfortably - you either love them or not - on their little idols, so persevere, but it may then be that you prefer not to go back to other saxes - and a good man will have been lost !

Bb - keep up the good work......

Toxic/ukebert - there's just something about ginger-haired ladies and freckles... Every one I've met has been a character ! Hmmmmm.....

;-))

Captain Muggles
User ID: 9725373 Mar 9th 6:20 PM
Bb......A fantasy usually means not readily attainable or practical. Red headed pale skinned girls with freckles are the proverbial "Dime a Dozen"! I can personally attest to that. They're all over the place and quite willing and quite good at "Whatever"! They are also usually quite Hot Natured. That is more the rule than the exception. Lovely! These are not slanderous remarks. Only sincere compliments!

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 10th 3:50 AM
Mugs - Where did I say fantasy...? Are you confusing fantasy with fetish ? I knew it was a mistake to use words of more than one syllable......

And be careful, your sexism IS showing !

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 10th 4:55 AM
Muggers. Based only upon films and TV programmes, I had the impression that American girls were all blonde, had serried rows of shiny white teeth and spoke with that Mid West whine.
For pale skin and red hair Ireland is the place. However, as many of you descend from the Irish potato famine pogrom then they would be, as you put it "a dime a dozen"...you must be right. :-))

JJ. In measurable terms, the sounds of saxophones is, in reality, very similar. A violinist would say..."yes,that sounds like a saxophone". We have all become too picky with the really small nuances of sounds from various saxophones.
If I ever have a problem with distinguishing the sounds of a baritone Vs. a soprano that will be the time to worry. :-))

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 10th 5:07 AM
Sorry, forgot to offer my condolences to Ken uk. I am sorry to learn of the deformity to your left little finger...industrial accident involving a milling machine perhaps? :-)

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 10th 5:20 AM
Forgive me if I return to topic. Until Alan mentioned it, I had forgotten the issue with the microtuner on the Conn C Mel. Many of us prefer to use beefy tenor mouthpieces which are restricted by this un-necessary, complex and heavy excrescence...that is unless playing flat is your preference.
My Conn C Mel (The Impala) had a curved neck which allowed a weapons grade tenor piece, yet the sound was, to me, a trifle too polite and mellow. Oddly, I have a Conn New Wonder alto of the same period which screams. We all know the power of "Chu" tenors so was the slightly stuffy, over refined sound perculiar to their C Mel; the straight neck in particular?

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 10th 5:49 AM
Alan/Bb, try the new straight and curved necks from Aquilasax! (when Steve gets more in).

toxic oreo
User ID: 1704034 Mar 10th 2:42 PM
The weapon's grade metal pro I picked up from Aquila sax can make a c mel bigger than most tenors I have played, and in tune.

I really cannot wait to try it on my conn (once it arrives).

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 10th 4:28 PM
And the cheap plastic one that I bought is well worth the money!

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 11th 3:02 AM
Toxic....Oh, really??
Is your "metal pro" fitted with the Garrett or the Borg Warner turbocharger?
On which C Mels have you tried this amazing piece?

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Toxic Oreo User ID: 8785553	Feb 27th 2:15 PM I am a young saxophone collector of sorts and I am looking for a c-mel to add to my ranks. I already have 3 vintage horns that I gig with and am looking for a different sound, something more laid back for use in both an old school blues band and in a couple local jazz ensembles. Ebay is not helping me in the least as the only listed c-mels are sniped from me within the final few minutes of the auction (I just lost a buescher by $5 with 5 seconds left on the auction). The only catch is I don't have a ton of money, and want a functioning horn. Any places other than local pawn shops and Ebay on where to find this ever elusive horn?
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 9th 6:54 AM True, true, and true......
et al User ID: 0262034	Mar 9th 8:01 AM Alan (et al) - Our straight neck Conn's are fine. But I'm sure that we would not mind having a Martin or King in our stable. As long as it was Satin Silver with Gold wash bell and Gold plated keys and rods. (That's a fetish that we have). But the fact of the matter (in our opinion) is that a good player can make any brand of horn sound good as long as that horn has inherent good intonation and the player has the talent and uses the proper reed-mouthpiece combination uniquely suited to him or her. Too much inference is placed on the brand of horn. When there is much more involved in the solution than that. That is only our opinion. But who are we? (et al I guess).
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 9th 9:03 AM We have heard, oh so many times, as nauseum, that it is all down to the player who can play any horn & sound good. To some degree this is true but no-one yet has answered the question "why do the vast majority of top line pros use, and always have used, Selmers"? My Conn C Mel was bland. My Buescher TT C Mel is robust. My R&C tenor is rich and colourful. My Grassi tenor sounds exactly like a Selmer. ALL with the same mouthpiece reed and lig. They all sound very different from each other. We may think that we sound the same but I believe that it is the STYLE of the player, not the sound of the horn which is identical and instantly recognisable. My wife can tell, from two floors up, with unfailing accuracy, which saxophone I am playing, and she is not a musician; evidently her hearing is more accurate than many who claim to be. She however, is not an expert so she must be wrong.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 9th 9:09 AM Jungle Jim. You talk of your silver with gold keywork fetish.... have you perchance any other fetish which you would care to share with us? :-))
et al User ID: 0262034	Mar 9th 11:29 AM Why do so many pros use Selmers? One reason is the constant bombardment of advertisements for about 40 years or more for Selmers in ALL major trade magazines et al (There's that abbreviation again) Downbeat, Metronome, Jazziz, etc. who give these famous musicans free horns for their endorsement of the Selmer product. If I named them all, it would take a lot of space. (about 50 or so top name jazz musicians from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. So many, that the young musician coming up was brainwashed to think they were the best. They are ONE of the best, but certainly not THE best. I figured this out early in life when I saw The same musicians who advertised Selmer play in person in the Philadelphia jazz clubs using horns other than Selmer, even though they endorsed Selmer. Zoot Sims, using a King; Johnny Hodges using a Silver Buescher alto; Stan Getz using an SML at the Red Hill Inn in New Jersey and many more. Grover Washington Junior endorsed H. Couf but used whatever he pleased (usually not H. Couf). I traded him EVEN UP a curved Silver Buescher soprano for an H. Couf Straight soprano. The Couf was worth about $3000.00 in 1981 when I got it from him. (It was their top of the line model, I believe it was an Eterna.) It was so bad that I sold it in about 3 months time. But at that time Couf had an advertising campaign going where they were giving horns to all the major horn players that would endorse them. But I digress. By the way, Maybe your wife might be wrong. I don't know. Other fetishes? Red headed women with pale skin and freckles.
Toxic OReo User ID: 8785553	Mar 9th 12:13 PM Holy crap I love redheads. And freckles. Which is why I am with a German girl with blonde hair... Wait, that makes no sense. DAMMIT!
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 9th 12:15 PM Topic finally vanished over the horizon...
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 9th 12:51 PM et al (AKA Jungle Jim). So, it's all down to advertising! Were this so then we would all be driving Fords.(shudder) I would suggest that the real preference for Selmers is the keywork. You will notice that all the standards are written in flat keys. This is to avoid the horrendous L/H little finger (I refuse to say pinkie) table of the American horns where an operation to shorten the left little finger was necessary to reach low C#...a ghastly system. Selmer, with the advent of the Balanced Action saxophone in 1935 put all the axles down the centre of the horn resulting in a far more ergonomic instrument. Meantime the Americans persisted with their ghastly clunky system where low C# worked back to front; beautiful sound however in the case of Conn 10ms and King Super 20s and a few others. It was, I propose, the # friendly keywork that resulted in the domination by Selmer. Playing one of those new fangled Rock and Roll songs in E or B, which horn would you choose? Shew me any modern horn that does not adopt the "axles down the centre" layout initiated by Selmer. The reason I play a Rampone & Cazzani is that it uses 10M bore dimentions with Selmer keywork...best of all worlds. Red headed women with pale skin is not a fetish but a fantasy. Ukebert. Down to you to bring the topic back on line. :-))
Ken uk User ID: 1689844	Mar 9th 2:44 PM Recently bought a selmer mark 6 tenor. Really great sound, but I still prefer the key work of my Conn. I'm just not used to that little finger key cluster yet.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 9th 4:12 PM et al - I have two real (practical issues) that stop even my fine musicianship from being comfortable playing straight-neck Conns, and therefore rendering them awkward to play. My first criteria with any instrument is that it's interface with me should be seamless - i.e. we should be as one. #1 - I am 'five foot and a gnats' tall, with proportionally short arms. i feel like I'm playing a straight-neck Conn C-mel that's a size loo long for me, full stretch and more..... I guess all you "happy-straight-neckers" are more towards the six-foot end of the scale, with arms like orangutan's ? #2 - the micro-tuner on the straight-neck Conn will not allow my tenor Lawton 8*BB (a real mans mouthpiece, from the UK)) to go on far enough to be in tune, nor my Berg, nor my Link.... I have, as project #33, scheduled for mid-2018, a straight neck nickle/nickel Conn, but which came with a replacement curved neck . That sax blew a storm, with an amazing range of sounds, until the bell fell off..... Funnily enough, no lacquer or silver Conn since, has sounded quite as good with the same curved neck and mouthpiece setup, so maybe it's a special sax. So, I don't have a real downer on Conns, In fact I have a gold-plated curved-neck Artist Conn C-Mel as project #26 - just to say that the slightly mellower sound with a straight-neck, combined with those two practicalities detailed above, lead me to say "pass" when it comes to them. I could still, if it came to it, playone, and "knock 'em dead" as they say - just that I wouldn't feel comfy, and I couldn't use my favourite mouthpieces because of the shank length. OK ? So, you stick with your silver sax and gold action fetish, and I'll stick with my curved necks and comfort, and we'll all be happy......... ============= Ken - MkVI players devote a lifetime to tootling comfortably - you either love them or not - on their little idols, so persevere, but it may then be that you prefer not to go back to other saxes - and a good man will have been lost ! Bb - keep up the good work...... Toxic/ukebert - there's just something about ginger-haired ladies and freckles... Every one I've met has been a character ! Hmmmmm..... ;-))
Captain Muggles User ID: 9725373	Mar 9th 6:20 PM Bb......A fantasy usually means not readily attainable or practical. Red headed pale skinned girls with freckles are the proverbial "Dime a Dozen"! I can personally attest to that. They're all over the place and quite willing and quite good at "Whatever"! They are also usually quite Hot Natured. That is more the rule than the exception. Lovely! These are not slanderous remarks. Only sincere compliments!
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 10th 3:50 AM Mugs - Where did I say fantasy...? Are you confusing fantasy with fetish ? I knew it was a mistake to use words of more than one syllable...... And be careful, your sexism IS showing !
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 10th 4:55 AM Muggers. Based only upon films and TV programmes, I had the impression that American girls were all blonde, had serried rows of shiny white teeth and spoke with that Mid West whine. For pale skin and red hair Ireland is the place. However, as many of you descend from the Irish potato famine pogrom then they would be, as you put it "a dime a dozen"...you must be right. :-)) JJ. In measurable terms, the sounds of saxophones is, in reality, very similar. A violinist would say..."yes,that sounds like a saxophone". We have all become too picky with the really small nuances of sounds from various saxophones. If I ever have a problem with distinguishing the sounds of a baritone Vs. a soprano that will be the time to worry. :-))
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 10th 5:07 AM Sorry, forgot to offer my condolences to Ken uk. I am sorry to learn of the deformity to your left little finger...industrial accident involving a milling machine perhaps? :-)
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 10th 5:20 AM Forgive me if I return to topic. Until Alan mentioned it, I had forgotten the issue with the microtuner on the Conn C Mel. Many of us prefer to use beefy tenor mouthpieces which are restricted by this un-necessary, complex and heavy excrescence...that is unless playing flat is your preference. My Conn C Mel (The Impala) had a curved neck which allowed a weapons grade tenor piece, yet the sound was, to me, a trifle too polite and mellow. Oddly, I have a Conn New Wonder alto of the same period which screams. We all know the power of "Chu" tenors so was the slightly stuffy, over refined sound perculiar to their C Mel; the straight neck in particular?
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 10th 5:49 AM Alan/Bb, try the new straight and curved necks from Aquilasax! (when Steve gets more in).
toxic oreo User ID: 1704034	Mar 10th 2:42 PM The weapon's grade metal pro I picked up from Aquila sax can make a c mel bigger than most tenors I have played, and in tune. I really cannot wait to try it on my conn (once it arrives).
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 10th 4:28 PM And the cheap plastic one that I bought is well worth the money!
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 11th 3:02 AM Toxic....Oh, really?? Is your "metal pro" fitted with the Garrett or the Borg Warner turbocharger? On which C Mels have you tried this amazing piece?