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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / Looking for a C-Mel

Back 20 Messages

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 8785553 Feb 27th 2:15 PM
I am a young saxophone collector of sorts and I am looking for a c-mel to add to my ranks. I already have 3 vintage horns that I gig with and am looking for a different sound, something more laid back for use in both an old school blues band and in a couple local jazz ensembles. Ebay is not helping me in the least as the only listed c-mels are sniped from me within the final few minutes of the auction (I just lost a buescher by $5 with 5 seconds left on the auction). The only catch is I don't have a ton of money, and want a functioning horn. Any places other than local pawn shops and Ebay on where to find this ever elusive horn?

Captain Muggles
User ID: 9725373 Mar 11th 7:55 PM
Ukebert....If you go back a bit on this thread, you will find that "et al" mentioned the satin silver with gold washed bell and gold plated keys "fetish". I have a liking for that same finish. But I am not "et al". I believe that Jungle Jim is. He refers to "us" and "we" in that thread. He is one of my best friends and we both share that preference. So I must be one of the us and we's. Alan refered to me as Captain Muggles ((et al) in one of his posts and JJ must have picked up on it and elaborated. I (Alan Young} am Captain Muggles and (Jim ?) is Jungle Jim. (he doesn't like to use his last name on line). Why, I don't know. But I will honor that request because he has asked me to. Jim is a bit younger than me. But we get along great professionally and privately. We think alike on a lot of things, especially where music is concerned. So that's it in a coconut shell!

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 8785553 Mar 11th 9:09 PM
Heh..."Tox the impatient."

That does indeed fit me. Good call.

There are some things that I do not mind waiting for; doctor's appointments, dentistry, tax time and work are some of them. Other things just drive me up the wall!

I blame my New England upbringing. We just don't know how to relax.

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Mar 12th 5:30 AM
The tuning differences between the continents were a very minor thing (no pun intended), not at all like HP vs. LP, and only really inconvenienced the less tuneable instruments - e.g. clarinettists often had a few slightly different length barrels, some still do, to accomodate locations and temperature/climate changes etc.

Without being disloyal to the C-Mel - or indeed any sax - the C-Mel's 'intonation variations', plus our lipping range, plus that great length of neck cork, could cope with the very small Euro/US differences. No problemo..

Don't forget, that before the 'big four' US manufacturers got into full swing, C-Mels were imported into the US from Europe.

Capn M - if Jungle Jim is a bit younger than you, surely that still means he can be sixty or seventy'ish ? I an reminded of an ageing ex-colleague of mine, who used to say "I prefer an older woman.." - to which the stock reply was "Vic - you'd need a shovel to find one....."

(I'll explain if anyone doesn't understand..)

Toxic - I don't think that Steve considers any of his excellent mouthpieces as "weapons grade" - indeed, that may put off potential buyers who who just need a decent MOR C-Mel mpc with good intonation and projection - not a paint stripper. For weapons grade performance, try my Lawton 8*BB, a wide '0' chamber metal Berg, or Bb's Runyon - although the real beef still has to come from within the player, so maybe it's your natural sound that's big?

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 8785553 Mar 12th 6:13 AM
The player does dictate the sound: I, for some reason, produce a really big, brash controlled sound....always have. All I know about Steve's piece is that it makes me rethink what I have heard about c-mels in the past.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 12th 7:37 AM
Toxic.
It would be interesting to hear the results from a back to back test with you using both the metal Aquilasax C Tenor mouthpiece and an acredited oyster opener Bb piece such as a Dukoff on a C melody horn. I feel certain that you would not then put the C mouthpiece in the Weapons Grade category.
As I see it (without ever having tried one) the metal Aquilasax C tenor piece is just a good modernised C melody mouthpiece. I would ask you to try one of the original C melody pieces in order to see how stuffy they were with their small tip opening designed for the absolute beginner to generate a sound. That, I think, would be the real and valid comparison; ie. the original 1920's Conn or Buescher mouthpiece Vs. the Aquilasax metal piece on a C melody sax.
The C melody is really a long alto, not a short tenor and therefore I have scepticism when I hear of a good modern C melody mouthpiece on a C melody sax being more powerful than that same mouthpiece on any Bb tenor.
Steve has designed that mouthpiece to give a brighter, more modern sound to the C melody; the last thing he needs is for his new horn to sound as stuffy as the originals with their very limited mouthpieces. Obviously I cannot speak for him but I would doubt that he would claim his mouthpiece as a competitor for the likes of Bb Dukoffs, Lawton BBs, Ruyon Quantum, Jumbo Javas or Berg 0 chamber...they are in a different league intended for an entirely different purpose.
Great on old Buescher C melodys however, if that's your style, but really girlie compared with the same mouthpiece on a tenor; sorry, but simply not in the same league, or ever intended to be so. :-))

Jungl;e Jim
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 10:13 AM
Alan (UK) - Captain Muggles is 68 years old. We just threw him a birthday party on February 25th (His Birthdate). I am 57 years old. Now you know "The rest of the story". (70ish? Give me a break).

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 12th 11:56 AM
Age is the last thing for which we are personably responsibe: we had absolutely no say in the matter. It is not a vice or a disease or anything that can be resisted.
Anyway, who in their right mind would want to be 21 again?

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 12th 12:00 PM
personably? dear oh dear, it must be my age...personally of course.
On many sites an "edit" function exists in order to correct one's postings. With this site our mistakes are hung out to dry for all time.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 12th 12:03 PM
And, while we are correcting, how about "responsibe"...must be on the downhill slide. :-)

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 12th 12:31 PM
Well, I don't blame you for silver body with gold rods and keys, but I quite like it t'other way round.

Mouthpieces have a surprising effect on the sound of an instrument, but there is no 'magic piece'. No C Melody can possibly sound like a Tenor, the bore is radically different. What you can do is allow the bore to tend to that of a tenor by using a different mouthpiece. Usually however, this compromises some other thing, like the intonation. It's all about compromise. In a side by side test, in almost every case (covering my tracks ;-)) the tenor is going to out-perform the cmel. however, that's not really the point of the instrument, it isn't a tenor. I am convinced that with the right mouthpiece, it can really sing. Not honking like a tenor, but it's own sound. That's what I'm looking for. Not very hard, I've got other things on my plate at the moment, which is probably why I haven't found it yet.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 12th 1:55 PM
Ken UK. There really should be no need to take your horn to the "shop" for a check-up. The octave mechanism is quite simple and should be well within your capabilities, even with your tragically truncated left little finger. :-))

Ukebert.
Gold coloured horn with silver(nickel)keywork usually signifies Student Model.
Tenors can sing too, simply an added benefit that they can honk. :-))

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 12th 4:22 PM
I know it's usually found on student horns, very irritating. I like it though.

JJ
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 4:26 PM
Seven

JJ
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 4:26 PM
Six

JJ
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 4:27 PM
Five

JJ
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 4:27 PM
Four

JJ
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 4:28 PM
Three

JJ
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 4:28 PM
Two

JJ
User ID: 0262034 Mar 12th 4:29 PM
ONE - THREAD CLOSED.......I WIN

Back 20 Messages

Toxic Oreo User ID: 8785553	Feb 27th 2:15 PM I am a young saxophone collector of sorts and I am looking for a c-mel to add to my ranks. I already have 3 vintage horns that I gig with and am looking for a different sound, something more laid back for use in both an old school blues band and in a couple local jazz ensembles. Ebay is not helping me in the least as the only listed c-mels are sniped from me within the final few minutes of the auction (I just lost a buescher by $5 with 5 seconds left on the auction). The only catch is I don't have a ton of money, and want a functioning horn. Any places other than local pawn shops and Ebay on where to find this ever elusive horn?
Captain Muggles User ID: 9725373	Mar 11th 7:55 PM Ukebert....If you go back a bit on this thread, you will find that "et al" mentioned the satin silver with gold washed bell and gold plated keys "fetish". I have a liking for that same finish. But I am not "et al". I believe that Jungle Jim is. He refers to "us" and "we" in that thread. He is one of my best friends and we both share that preference. So I must be one of the us and we's. Alan refered to me as Captain Muggles ((et al) in one of his posts and JJ must have picked up on it and elaborated. I (Alan Young} am Captain Muggles and (Jim ?) is Jungle Jim. (he doesn't like to use his last name on line). Why, I don't know. But I will honor that request because he has asked me to. Jim is a bit younger than me. But we get along great professionally and privately. We think alike on a lot of things, especially where music is concerned. So that's it in a coconut shell!
Toxic Oreo User ID: 8785553	Mar 11th 9:09 PM Heh..."Tox the impatient." That does indeed fit me. Good call. There are some things that I do not mind waiting for; doctor's appointments, dentistry, tax time and work are some of them. Other things just drive me up the wall! I blame my New England upbringing. We just don't know how to relax.
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Mar 12th 5:30 AM The tuning differences between the continents were a very minor thing (no pun intended), not at all like HP vs. LP, and only really inconvenienced the less tuneable instruments - e.g. clarinettists often had a few slightly different length barrels, some still do, to accomodate locations and temperature/climate changes etc. Without being disloyal to the C-Mel - or indeed any sax - the C-Mel's 'intonation variations', plus our lipping range, plus that great length of neck cork, could cope with the very small Euro/US differences. No problemo.. Don't forget, that before the 'big four' US manufacturers got into full swing, C-Mels were imported into the US from Europe. Capn M - if Jungle Jim is a bit younger than you, surely that still means he can be sixty or seventy'ish ? I an reminded of an ageing ex-colleague of mine, who used to say "I prefer an older woman.." - to which the stock reply was "Vic - you'd need a shovel to find one....." (I'll explain if anyone doesn't understand..) Toxic - I don't think that Steve considers any of his excellent mouthpieces as "weapons grade" - indeed, that may put off potential buyers who who just need a decent MOR C-Mel mpc with good intonation and projection - not a paint stripper. For weapons grade performance, try my Lawton 8*BB, a wide '0' chamber metal Berg, or Bb's Runyon - although the real beef still has to come from within the player, so maybe it's your natural sound that's big?
Toxic Oreo User ID: 8785553	Mar 12th 6:13 AM The player does dictate the sound: I, for some reason, produce a really big, brash controlled sound....always have. All I know about Steve's piece is that it makes me rethink what I have heard about c-mels in the past.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 12th 7:37 AM Toxic. It would be interesting to hear the results from a back to back test with you using both the metal Aquilasax C Tenor mouthpiece and an acredited oyster opener Bb piece such as a Dukoff on a C melody horn. I feel certain that you would not then put the C mouthpiece in the Weapons Grade category. As I see it (without ever having tried one) the metal Aquilasax C tenor piece is just a good modernised C melody mouthpiece. I would ask you to try one of the original C melody pieces in order to see how stuffy they were with their small tip opening designed for the absolute beginner to generate a sound. That, I think, would be the real and valid comparison; ie. the original 1920's Conn or Buescher mouthpiece Vs. the Aquilasax metal piece on a C melody sax. The C melody is really a long alto, not a short tenor and therefore I have scepticism when I hear of a good modern C melody mouthpiece on a C melody sax being more powerful than that same mouthpiece on any Bb tenor. Steve has designed that mouthpiece to give a brighter, more modern sound to the C melody; the last thing he needs is for his new horn to sound as stuffy as the originals with their very limited mouthpieces. Obviously I cannot speak for him but I would doubt that he would claim his mouthpiece as a competitor for the likes of Bb Dukoffs, Lawton BBs, Ruyon Quantum, Jumbo Javas or Berg 0 chamber...they are in a different league intended for an entirely different purpose. Great on old Buescher C melodys however, if that's your style, but really girlie compared with the same mouthpiece on a tenor; sorry, but simply not in the same league, or ever intended to be so. :-))
Jungl;e Jim User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 10:13 AM Alan (UK) - Captain Muggles is 68 years old. We just threw him a birthday party on February 25th (His Birthdate). I am 57 years old. Now you know "The rest of the story". (70ish? Give me a break).
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 12th 11:56 AM Age is the last thing for which we are personably responsibe: we had absolutely no say in the matter. It is not a vice or a disease or anything that can be resisted. Anyway, who in their right mind would want to be 21 again?
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 12th 12:00 PM personably? dear oh dear, it must be my age...personally of course. On many sites an "edit" function exists in order to correct one's postings. With this site our mistakes are hung out to dry for all time.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 12th 12:03 PM And, while we are correcting, how about "responsibe"...must be on the downhill slide. :-)
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 12th 12:31 PM Well, I don't blame you for silver body with gold rods and keys, but I quite like it t'other way round. Mouthpieces have a surprising effect on the sound of an instrument, but there is no 'magic piece'. No C Melody can possibly sound like a Tenor, the bore is radically different. What you can do is allow the bore to tend to that of a tenor by using a different mouthpiece. Usually however, this compromises some other thing, like the intonation. It's all about compromise. In a side by side test, in almost every case (covering my tracks ;-)) the tenor is going to out-perform the cmel. however, that's not really the point of the instrument, it isn't a tenor. I am convinced that with the right mouthpiece, it can really sing. Not honking like a tenor, but it's own sound. That's what I'm looking for. Not very hard, I've got other things on my plate at the moment, which is probably why I haven't found it yet.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 12th 1:55 PM Ken UK. There really should be no need to take your horn to the "shop" for a check-up. The octave mechanism is quite simple and should be well within your capabilities, even with your tragically truncated left little finger. :-)) Ukebert. Gold coloured horn with silver(nickel)keywork usually signifies Student Model. Tenors can sing too, simply an added benefit that they can honk. :-))
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 12th 4:22 PM I know it's usually found on student horns, very irritating. I like it though.
JJ User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 4:26 PM Seven
JJ User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 4:26 PM Six
JJ User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 4:27 PM Five
JJ User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 4:27 PM Four
JJ User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 4:28 PM Three
JJ User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 4:28 PM Two
JJ User ID: 0262034	Mar 12th 4:29 PM ONE - THREAD CLOSED.......I WIN