C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / Music for C melody

Next 20 Messages

MarcN(UK)
User ID: 9321503 Oct 5th 5:49 AM
Hi, I am a professional saxophonist in the UK and am looking for printed music for the C melody saxophone. Does anyone know of a publisher which issues copies of the Wiedoeft solos in C melody form, as well as others - Trumbology for example. If anyone can helpI would be most grateful. Also, is there anyone who has a copy of the Freddy Gardner Solo Album with piano accompaniment?

I have a beautiful Holton C melody saxophone which is a dream to play, and would love to be able to have some music I can play on it in recital, as the instrument is sadly neglected.

This is a great forum.

MarcN

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 5th 6:58 AM
MarkN - funnily enough, I have an original copy of Saxophobia en-route to me from the US. Sadly, altho' it's a Wiedoeft publication, from the ebay pics (190155717395) it looks like it's arranged for piano and alto.....

That says a lot ! I'd be glad to photocopy it for you, but you'd have to transpose for C-Mel (unless there's a melody line on the piano part. Just have to wait and see, and add on some time for the current postal strike.

I'll have a root around for some other 20's music I have with (from memory) C-mel parts, but I think it's just standards, not Rudy or Tram numbers.

You can email me direct thro cmelodysax.co.uk if you wish. I'm on a hunt for original music as well, to offer as a free resource on the website (copyright permitting) - like the free 'C' fakebook downloads....

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 6th 4:38 AM
MarkN - I've found a site where they let you download Wiedoeft sheet music, piano + C-Mel, but the url's are too long to paste here - email me.

I haven't tried it, $8 a number.

MarcN(uk)
User ID: 9321503 Oct 9th 4:44 PM
Hi Alan, thank you for your message. I have the complete Wiedoeft edition from Musik Fabrik, (which has several pieces missing) but they are all for Alto sax and piano. As it is the piano parts that need transcribing it will be a huge amount of work, and so would really like to purchase the C piano parts already transcribed! I think I may have have looked at the site that you mention. The only thing is that they are not listing the numbers I want! I hope that you are successful with searching for C melody music. I would be very interested to purchase any of the standards that you may have should you be willing.
Best wishes
MarcN

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 10th 9:17 AM
Marc (or indeed anyone else) - Saxophobia arrived today from the US (probably faster than within the UK, with our postal strike.

The music is missing the sax part, if it ever existed, but alto line is printed over the piano part.

In this instance I think I'd prefer to play it on alto, as the concert key goes from Bb, to Eb and then to Ab.... Peculiar choice of keys for something (allegedly) played at speed on C-Mel.

I could almost go with the theory that several numbers attributed to C-mel were in fact played on alto. The alto keys of G > C > F at speed seem far more civilised than the C-Mel keys of Bb > Eb > Ab.

Marc - surely the piano (concert) parts you have, are in the right/original key ? Isn't it just a matter of reading the alto parts up a minor third (e.g C instead of A) to get the right notes for C-Mel ? Inverse concert > alto transposion !

MarcN(uk)
User ID: 9321503 Oct 10th 12:11 PM
Hi Alan, the Wiedoeft recordings and indeed the printed music released by Robbins, leave the saxophone part as for the Alto versions and transpose the piano parts into the keys that the sax parts are in. So, for example, if the alto sax part for the piece was in F this key would have been retained in the solo part, and the piano part would have been transposed from A flat major into F major. This is why I am desperate to get hold of the C melody piano parts as it is a lot of work to transpose the piano parts of 10 volumes of music.
I assume that you have both the Wiedoeft CD released by Clarinet Classics and a CD called Vaudeville Saxophone Melodies played by Leo van Oostram on the C Melody. This includes many of the well known Wiedoeft solos as well as Oodles of Noodles and Trumbology.

You may be interested to know that I have written some pieces for the C Melody which are published by Edition Lyrique, 18 Mill Road, Northumberland Heath Kent, DA8 1HN. They are very tonal and make a special feature of the singing quality of the instrument.

Perhas we can meet up one day and swap C melody stories?

Nice to talk to you,

MarcN (uk)

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 10th 3:47 PM
MarcN =- Aaahh, so my "The alto keys of G > C > F at speed seem far more civilised than the C-Mel keys of Bb > Eb > Ab. " comment was nearer the mark than I thought.

The sax fingerings remain the same, but the piano parts transpose to suit ? Inspired lunacy. You could use a transposing electronic piano (there are some very good ones around, some literally sound as good as a baby grand with sympathetic amplification) where the player can dial in "C=Eb"...

(or whatever the required transposition ratio is - after a long evening viewing my granddaughters potential new senior school, what little is left of my grey cells have died)

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 10th 4:33 PM
Having possibly re-engaged the braincells, if playing the transposed alto line on a C-mel, then the piano key could have to come up the equivalent of three sharps (or three fewer flats), so it would be "C=A" on the transposing piano ?

It was fun when I used to play my transposing wind synth with a transposing keyboard player... As long as we both transposed the same amount, we could stay on the same key and fingerings, but move the pitch all over the place 8-))

(Now I know why I sold it...)

jazzbug1
User ID: 0735934 Oct 11th 7:03 AM
I regularly play some of the Wiedoeft tunes on C melody or alto. I work with a pianist who is sharp enough to transpose HIS part, so the keys are relatively easy. I have heard a number of players attempt these tunes, but hardly anyone has mastered the art of the slap tongue. That trick effect really gives these tunes their novelty, and without it, they sound like an exercise in fingering. The slap tongue became the target of ridicule after about 1930 and it vanished with the novelty style of playing. Tunes of a just a few years later, such as "Oodles of Noodles" are more about jazz than novelty effects. Many of the pioneer players, such as Coleman Hawkins, dismissed their slap-tonguing of an earlier era. I use it as a percussive effect in all forms of jazz, including modern. Its fun and an invigorating form of oral exercise.

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 11th 8:34 AM
jb1 - I've always held the opinion that (apart from section playing), sheet music is fine for learning a tune - although I still learn mostly 'by ear'. Sheet music is a fine memory aid, but if you get used to reading all the time, it's difficult to play without.

Once learnt, the key can easily be changed by the same mental technique that we use for Eb/Bb transposition. The intervals and shapes remain similar, just the focal point moves.

And, like you, I'm lucky enough to play (or have played) with versatile players who enjoy exercising the grey cells. Having dabbled in brass for a while, I also use triple and sideways flutter tongueing occasionally, but you have to be careful or the end of the reed can nick the tongue - painful, brass mouthpieces didn't have reeds...

I like doing low vocal growls thro' the horn, in between musical phrases - and the Kirk/Anderson 'singing along with the flute', even harmonising. Add in percussive pad effects, and a solo can really expand.

CRM
User ID: 9725373 Oct 11th 1:41 PM
alan (uk): I agree and can definitely relate to your first 2 above paragraphs. I read well, but do not need to most of the time. I (and most of my musical cohorts) learn by ear 90% of the time. Relying on written music all of the time is a very limiting procedure. It hinders the development of ear training. And that's a bad thing. The very best and elite players that I am associated with can just listen and then pick it right up. These are the most sought after players. And I am lucky enough to be counted as one of that group in my area. The main reasons are (1)-Good ears; (2)-Reed doubling and (3)-Good vocalist. Ear training is totally essential as far as the vocals and instrumental improvising are concerned.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Oct 11th 3:35 PM
CRM.
I do so agree, nothing worse than a chap with a 3 grand sax and 50 pence ears.

Eric
User ID: 0791694 Oct 18th 9:30 PM
I have Wiedoeft's Valse Vanite and Waltz Llewellyn arranged for C melody & would be pleased to get copies to you. I also have his arrangements of Lament D'Amour by Herzberg and Toddlin' Sax by Rappe & Axt.

ukebert
User ID: 7928263 Oct 19th 3:51 AM
As a folkie and a veteran of the Suzuki Piano method, I still prefer learning by ear than from the dots. I'm fine sight reading, as long as I know how it goes first.

alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 19th 5:29 AM
ukebert - this "Suzuki Piano method" ? Is it a bit like scrambling, where you ride a motorbike up and down the keys ?

(watch out for the F#, it's a bit slippy....:-)

Eric - I'd love copies of any of those.

MarcN(UK)
User ID: 9321503 Oct 19th 7:38 AM
Hi Eric, thanks for the mention of the C melody Wiedoeft Arrangements for C melody. I would love the music for them if that is a possibility. It is very kind of you to offer. Could I have the Lament d'amour and Toddlin sax as well please? If you can send me an email address, I will send you a message including my home address. If you'd like to give me yours I will send you a copy of my Arias for C melody (free of course!)

Many thanks,
Marc

Eric
User ID: 0791694 Oct 19th 11:22 AM
Certainly Marc- send a message to estott@localnet.com I do not have a scanner so I will try photographing the music & if the images are readable I'll send them as email attachments to print out: otherwise I'll xerox them and put them in the post. Often publishers would include a c melody line in the piano part of an alto arrangement & in that form I have two Clyde Doerr pieces, plus other stuff- I can send you a list.

Glad to help,
Eric

Eric
User ID: 0791694 Oct 24th 9:18 PM
Marc- I haven't gotten a message from you- have you sent one?
Try deskmandmna@yahoo.com

Eric
User ID: 0791694 Oct 27th 6:15 PM
Just remembered: at www.freehandmusic.com there are quite a few Wiedoeft pieces that can be bought and downloaded for $3.95 each......AND you can get them for alto, tenor AND C Melody! Certainly better than paying $20.00 or more for period editions, only to find pages are missing.

Alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Oct 28th 6:10 AM
Eric- are you having a laught at my expense ? My 20's ebay purchase is very usable, the sax line is printed on the piano part. Easily transposable if I only use the notation to learn the numbers, like all vituoso's I wouldn't be seen dead, performing off sheet music ! 8-)) Easily transposable too, once the 'shapes' are memorised.

It's great to actually hold, and play from, something that was actually used in the 20's (just like our C-Mels...) You can't put a price on feelings like that ! How much charisma does a nice virgin white sheet of paper, fresh from an inkjet printer, have ? Useful way of getting music, I'd agree, but I'd rather have originals if I can get them (with resell value, of course !).

Next 20 Messages

MarcN(UK) User ID: 9321503	Oct 5th 5:49 AM Hi, I am a professional saxophonist in the UK and am looking for printed music for the C melody saxophone. Does anyone know of a publisher which issues copies of the Wiedoeft solos in C melody form, as well as others - Trumbology for example. If anyone can helpI would be most grateful. Also, is there anyone who has a copy of the Freddy Gardner Solo Album with piano accompaniment? I have a beautiful Holton C melody saxophone which is a dream to play, and would love to be able to have some music I can play on it in recital, as the instrument is sadly neglected. This is a great forum. MarcN
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 5th 6:58 AM MarkN - funnily enough, I have an original copy of Saxophobia en-route to me from the US. Sadly, altho' it's a Wiedoeft publication, from the ebay pics (190155717395) it looks like it's arranged for piano and alto..... That says a lot ! I'd be glad to photocopy it for you, but you'd have to transpose for C-Mel (unless there's a melody line on the piano part. Just have to wait and see, and add on some time for the current postal strike. I'll have a root around for some other 20's music I have with (from memory) C-mel parts, but I think it's just standards, not Rudy or Tram numbers. You can email me direct thro cmelodysax.co.uk if you wish. I'm on a hunt for original music as well, to offer as a free resource on the website (copyright permitting) - like the free 'C' fakebook downloads....
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 6th 4:38 AM MarkN - I've found a site where they let you download Wiedoeft sheet music, piano + C-Mel, but the url's are too long to paste here - email me. I haven't tried it, $8 a number.
MarcN(uk) User ID: 9321503	Oct 9th 4:44 PM Hi Alan, thank you for your message. I have the complete Wiedoeft edition from Musik Fabrik, (which has several pieces missing) but they are all for Alto sax and piano. As it is the piano parts that need transcribing it will be a huge amount of work, and so would really like to purchase the C piano parts already transcribed! I think I may have have looked at the site that you mention. The only thing is that they are not listing the numbers I want! I hope that you are successful with searching for C melody music. I would be very interested to purchase any of the standards that you may have should you be willing. Best wishes MarcN
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 10th 9:17 AM Marc (or indeed anyone else) - Saxophobia arrived today from the US (probably faster than within the UK, with our postal strike. The music is missing the sax part, if it ever existed, but alto line is printed over the piano part. In this instance I think I'd prefer to play it on alto, as the concert key goes from Bb, to Eb and then to Ab.... Peculiar choice of keys for something (allegedly) played at speed on C-Mel. I could almost go with the theory that several numbers attributed to C-mel were in fact played on alto. The alto keys of G > C > F at speed seem far more civilised than the C-Mel keys of Bb > Eb > Ab. Marc - surely the piano (concert) parts you have, are in the right/original key ? Isn't it just a matter of reading the alto parts up a minor third (e.g C instead of A) to get the right notes for C-Mel ? Inverse concert > alto transposion !
MarcN(uk) User ID: 9321503	Oct 10th 12:11 PM Hi Alan, the Wiedoeft recordings and indeed the printed music released by Robbins, leave the saxophone part as for the Alto versions and transpose the piano parts into the keys that the sax parts are in. So, for example, if the alto sax part for the piece was in F this key would have been retained in the solo part, and the piano part would have been transposed from A flat major into F major. This is why I am desperate to get hold of the C melody piano parts as it is a lot of work to transpose the piano parts of 10 volumes of music. I assume that you have both the Wiedoeft CD released by Clarinet Classics and a CD called Vaudeville Saxophone Melodies played by Leo van Oostram on the C Melody. This includes many of the well known Wiedoeft solos as well as Oodles of Noodles and Trumbology. You may be interested to know that I have written some pieces for the C Melody which are published by Edition Lyrique, 18 Mill Road, Northumberland Heath Kent, DA8 1HN. They are very tonal and make a special feature of the singing quality of the instrument. Perhas we can meet up one day and swap C melody stories? Nice to talk to you, MarcN (uk)
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 10th 3:47 PM MarcN =- Aaahh, so my "The alto keys of G > C > F at speed seem far more civilised than the C-Mel keys of Bb > Eb > Ab. " comment was nearer the mark than I thought. The sax fingerings remain the same, but the piano parts transpose to suit ? Inspired lunacy. You could use a transposing electronic piano (there are some very good ones around, some literally sound as good as a baby grand with sympathetic amplification) where the player can dial in "C=Eb"... (or whatever the required transposition ratio is - after a long evening viewing my granddaughters potential new senior school, what little is left of my grey cells have died)
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 10th 4:33 PM Having possibly re-engaged the braincells, if playing the transposed alto line on a C-mel, then the piano key could have to come up the equivalent of three sharps (or three fewer flats), so it would be "C=A" on the transposing piano ? It was fun when I used to play my transposing wind synth with a transposing keyboard player... As long as we both transposed the same amount, we could stay on the same key and fingerings, but move the pitch all over the place 8-)) (Now I know why I sold it...)
jazzbug1 User ID: 0735934	Oct 11th 7:03 AM I regularly play some of the Wiedoeft tunes on C melody or alto. I work with a pianist who is sharp enough to transpose HIS part, so the keys are relatively easy. I have heard a number of players attempt these tunes, but hardly anyone has mastered the art of the slap tongue. That trick effect really gives these tunes their novelty, and without it, they sound like an exercise in fingering. The slap tongue became the target of ridicule after about 1930 and it vanished with the novelty style of playing. Tunes of a just a few years later, such as "Oodles of Noodles" are more about jazz than novelty effects. Many of the pioneer players, such as Coleman Hawkins, dismissed their slap-tonguing of an earlier era. I use it as a percussive effect in all forms of jazz, including modern. Its fun and an invigorating form of oral exercise.
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 11th 8:34 AM jb1 - I've always held the opinion that (apart from section playing), sheet music is fine for learning a tune - although I still learn mostly 'by ear'. Sheet music is a fine memory aid, but if you get used to reading all the time, it's difficult to play without. Once learnt, the key can easily be changed by the same mental technique that we use for Eb/Bb transposition. The intervals and shapes remain similar, just the focal point moves. And, like you, I'm lucky enough to play (or have played) with versatile players who enjoy exercising the grey cells. Having dabbled in brass for a while, I also use triple and sideways flutter tongueing occasionally, but you have to be careful or the end of the reed can nick the tongue - painful, brass mouthpieces didn't have reeds... I like doing low vocal growls thro' the horn, in between musical phrases - and the Kirk/Anderson 'singing along with the flute', even harmonising. Add in percussive pad effects, and a solo can really expand.
CRM User ID: 9725373	Oct 11th 1:41 PM alan (uk): I agree and can definitely relate to your first 2 above paragraphs. I read well, but do not need to most of the time. I (and most of my musical cohorts) learn by ear 90% of the time. Relying on written music all of the time is a very limiting procedure. It hinders the development of ear training. And that's a bad thing. The very best and elite players that I am associated with can just listen and then pick it right up. These are the most sought after players. And I am lucky enough to be counted as one of that group in my area. The main reasons are (1)-Good ears; (2)-Reed doubling and (3)-Good vocalist. Ear training is totally essential as far as the vocals and instrumental improvising are concerned.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Oct 11th 3:35 PM CRM. I do so agree, nothing worse than a chap with a 3 grand sax and 50 pence ears.
Eric User ID: 0791694	Oct 18th 9:30 PM I have Wiedoeft's Valse Vanite and Waltz Llewellyn arranged for C melody & would be pleased to get copies to you. I also have his arrangements of Lament D'Amour by Herzberg and Toddlin' Sax by Rappe & Axt.
ukebert User ID: 7928263	Oct 19th 3:51 AM As a folkie and a veteran of the Suzuki Piano method, I still prefer learning by ear than from the dots. I'm fine sight reading, as long as I know how it goes first.
alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 19th 5:29 AM ukebert - this "Suzuki Piano method" ? Is it a bit like scrambling, where you ride a motorbike up and down the keys ? (watch out for the F#, it's a bit slippy....:-) Eric - I'd love copies of any of those.
MarcN(UK) User ID: 9321503	Oct 19th 7:38 AM Hi Eric, thanks for the mention of the C melody Wiedoeft Arrangements for C melody. I would love the music for them if that is a possibility. It is very kind of you to offer. Could I have the Lament d'amour and Toddlin sax as well please? If you can send me an email address, I will send you a message including my home address. If you'd like to give me yours I will send you a copy of my Arias for C melody (free of course!) Many thanks, Marc
Eric User ID: 0791694	Oct 19th 11:22 AM Certainly Marc- send a message to estott@localnet.com I do not have a scanner so I will try photographing the music & if the images are readable I'll send them as email attachments to print out: otherwise I'll xerox them and put them in the post. Often publishers would include a c melody line in the piano part of an alto arrangement & in that form I have two Clyde Doerr pieces, plus other stuff- I can send you a list. Glad to help, Eric
Eric User ID: 0791694	Oct 24th 9:18 PM Marc- I haven't gotten a message from you- have you sent one? Try deskmandmna@yahoo.com
Eric User ID: 0791694	Oct 27th 6:15 PM Just remembered: at www.freehandmusic.com there are quite a few Wiedoeft pieces that can be bought and downloaded for $3.95 each......AND you can get them for alto, tenor AND C Melody! Certainly better than paying $20.00 or more for period editions, only to find pages are missing.
Alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Oct 28th 6:10 AM Eric- are you having a laught at my expense ? My 20's ebay purchase is very usable, the sax line is printed on the piano part. Easily transposable if I only use the notation to learn the numbers, like all vituoso's I wouldn't be seen dead, performing off sheet music ! 8-)) Easily transposable too, once the 'shapes' are memorised. It's great to actually hold, and play from, something that was actually used in the 20's (just like our C-Mels...) You can't put a price on feelings like that ! How much charisma does a nice virgin white sheet of paper, fresh from an inkjet printer, have ? Useful way of getting music, I'd agree, but I'd rather have originals if I can get them (with resell value, of course !).