C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / C mel MP v Tenor

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 8785553 Mar 12th 5:29 PM
So there seems to be some ambiguity regarding comments made about certain mouthpieces when compared to others.

The Aquila sax MP played on a buescher Cmel didn't hold a candle to what my tenor can put out with a Meyer 8m. I have played on a vintage piece on the c mel and that is where the comparison was based, not between the tenor.

Anyways, Steve's MP rocked the hell out of classic the C "I was made for Jimmy and Bobby and their mom to play" I have played on.

Some seem to be either nitpicking my word usage or being precocious for the hell of it. No, a c is not a tenor. I never claimed it to be. In comparison to every other c mel piece I have played, Steve's MP blew the crap out of them.

Why, oh why, would I try to compare a mouthpiece from one different type of horn to another? If I wanted to compare a berg larson to *insert MP here* I would have typed about how they were different on a tenor...you know, the horn they were built for. I don't compare the sounds between alto and bari MPs (or horns for that matter), so why bother with c mel v. tenor?

Hey, nice car. Is it as good as my lear jet? No, well, that makes sense.

Just wanted to clear things up. I'm new to the c mel, but not to the general concepts surrounding a saxophone.

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8945823 Mar 12th 6:08 PM
Toxic....I don't know what to make of you. You burst on the scene a little while ago and now you are constant, without letup. Your Lear Jet? What are you talking about? Do you hang out all day and night on this forum. No offense. Just curious. I'm on quite a bit myself. But nowhere near as much as you.

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 8785553 Mar 12th 8:17 PM
Um...what?

I'm here not nearly as often as you are making it sound, complete with your implications that I am here all day/night. Between work, sleep and the other, finer things in life, I am around maybe .5 hours a day if that. If by "burst on the scene" you mean begin posting and then following up said posts I guess you are correct. I wasn't aware that the board etiquette around here was so different then the rest of the internet.

The lear jet thing was an illustrating analogy attempting to show how comparing two things that may be the same in practice (transportation devices) really cannot be compared in the least, much like different types of horns.

I'll be sure to not attempt to add to this board for at least a few days as apparently I, as a new guy, am not supposed to. Could be a cultural thing, could just be a phenomena unique to the board...who knows.

Either way, the information I have gleaned from this board is useful. I'll leave the posting to teh 4 of you whom do it constantly and talk about the same damned things over, and over, and over again.

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8945823 Mar 13th 12:03 AM
T.O....No need to get grouchy. Post as much as you like. There are no time constraints on this forum. I said "no offense" in my post. Don't be so defensive. Your information and questions are quite viable. At least you're not a mindless moron. If you really choose not to post for a "few days' because of my inquiry. You must be really tempramental. You are also pretty close to right on your comment about "the 4 of you". But that's not gonna stop me from posting! Get over it!

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 13th 5:27 AM
Toxic.
It is hardly "nitpicking" to raise one's eyebrows at your statement claiming that a C Melody with whatever mouthpiece could make a bigger sound than most tenors that you have blown. Especially as it seems that you have only ever blown two somewhat dodgy C Mels in a secondhand shop.
You came here asking our opinion on which C Melody you should buy. It has taken 100 postings for you to take no notice of any advice that we, experienced C Melody players, have offered.
The Martin which Jungle Jim pointed out is still available on ebay; it seems an excellent horn. You say, quite rightly, that you want a big sound for your blues band and the Martin offers just that. Instead, you buy probably the most delicate sounding horn from a DEALER.
Clearly you do not accept advice; but here is some more....if you play in a blues band (presumably led by amplified guitars), forget the C Melody and play tenor...I know because I have played C Melody in a blues band..it simply does not have the balls. The only possible benefit is the ease of playing in guitar keys. I am assuming that you can play and improvise in concert E and B.

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 13th 9:16 AM
Hmm, four people, I don't think that means me
:-))

Easy Rider
User ID: 8945823 Mar 13th 9:18 AM
Ukebert...Yes it does!

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 13th 9:28 AM
Shame ;-))

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 13th 9:58 AM
Toxic.
The reason for the C Mel/tenor mouthpiece comparison is the fact that many of us use Bb tenor pieces exclusively on our C Mels...does that clear up another apparent confusion?
Ukebert.
Yes it does. :-))

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 13th 11:06 AM
Me, ukebert, Bb, Capn. M, Jungle Jim..... 4 ?

Now I know I use tenor mpcs on C-Mel, Bb uses a tenor Runyon, Capn M uses a tenor Selmer S/S, as does (possibly) JJ ? Gregs excellent sound samples come from a tenor Berg on a C-Mel.

So, with all that musical expertise, I do detect a trend. Bb tenor mpcs do work well on a C-mel, at least for serious musicians ! So we can cross-compare, Toxic.

Anyone I haven't included, please don't take that as a criticism of either your musicianship or your seriousness..........

So, whilst I openly acknowledge Steve's mouthpiece (I've only tried the hard rubber one) is excellent, probably the best amongst C-Mel specific mouthpieces - there are a lot of use who use tenor mouthpieces on our C-mels. I have yet to be convinced that the two schools of thought cannot amicably co-exist, dodgy double-negative aside.

After all, C-Mel is only a tone away from Bb tenor, and I also happily use Bb Sop mouthpieces on my C-Sop. Preferences apart, it's also because of the woeful lack of choice when it comes to availability of real C-mouthpieces. Unless you want to play in an acoustic retro-20's or community band, both of which are thankfully quite rare this side of the Atlantic.....

Jungle Jim
User ID: 9182423 Mar 13th 11:52 AM
Alan - Funny you should mention that short shank tenor mouthpiece. I do have one and I purchased it from Muggles for $80 bucks. It works great on my Conn C melody. Its a Selmer metal Jazz model identical to the Captain's. He still has 3 more, including the one he uses.

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Mar 13th 2:18 PM
Muggsy, if you're reading this, or still recovering from the birthday party, I'll gladly buy one of remaining the Selmer S/S Jazz's for 80 bucks.........

I sold my normal shank "Jazz" (quite open for a Selmer, it was a "G" or maybe even an "H") some years back, and quite miss the cool old thing.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 13th 4:34 PM
Alan. I have an old Selmer 3* scroll shank tenor mouthpiece which came with a sax. Not at all sure if this is the sort of thing that you are talking about...very mellow and dark, but it's yours if you want it.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 14th 5:53 AM
Jungle Jim.
That rebuilt, repadded Martin C Mel. that you pointed out on ebay went for $510. That was a bargain I think as it appeared to be in pristine condition; and it was not sniped at the last second.

Jungle Jim
User ID: 9182423 Mar 14th 12:54 PM
Alan (UK) - I played a gig with Muggles last night at the Borgata Casino in Atlantic City and asked him about selling the Short Shank selmer Metal Jazz mouthpiece. He said that he has three of them. But he uses one on the Tenor and another on the C melody, leaving one for a spare. So no dice.

Paul(UK)
User ID: 8841313 Mar 14th 1:23 PM
I may as well put in my tuppence worth, inexperienced as it is. When I first started playing my C I used a stock mouthpiece but found, in particular, A, B & C to be very stuffy so I had a couple of mouthpieces opened up, to a C*, approx, this made a vast if not totally satisfactory improvement. Then following the advice on this site I got hold of 2 tenor mouthpieces and the difference was chalk and cheese, the C's tone was wonderful and I for one will be sticking with tenor pieces, at I will when I have a functioning sax again, sigh.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 15th 9:45 AM
Paul, physical dimensions aside, so many of the tenor mouthpieces (especially the brighter ones) have small'ish chambers - probably approaching the original C-mel size. So not surprising that some tenor mpcs excel on C-Mel. E.g Lawton and Berg.

If anyone is "bored out of their tree" (I wish !), then it would be a useful exercise to plug some tenor and C-mel mouthpieces at the point where the shank normally ends (in-tune obviously), and carefully check chamber volumes with liquid.

Might I suggest Scotch, as the amber colour will make measuring the volume easier....... Results could get a bit inconclusive, after the first couple of tests !

ESB
User ID: 1704034 Mar 17th 6:15 AM
That martin on ebay that went for $510 a few days ago has somehow made its way to me. I didn't win the auction, nor did I come in second, but the first buyer recinded their bid and the second never responded to the second chance they had on the horn, so I got it for under $500. I got a Beechler 7 here waiting for the horn to show up...should be in the next few days.

On a side note, the serial number contains a series of three digits that have haunted me for years; 213. I feel as if I was destined for the horn.

Toxic Oreo User ID: 8785553	Mar 12th 5:29 PM So there seems to be some ambiguity regarding comments made about certain mouthpieces when compared to others. The Aquila sax MP played on a buescher Cmel didn't hold a candle to what my tenor can put out with a Meyer 8m. I have played on a vintage piece on the c mel and that is where the comparison was based, not between the tenor. Anyways, Steve's MP rocked the hell out of classic the C "I was made for Jimmy and Bobby and their mom to play" I have played on. Some seem to be either nitpicking my word usage or being precocious for the hell of it. No, a c is not a tenor. I never claimed it to be. In comparison to every other c mel piece I have played, Steve's MP blew the crap out of them. Why, oh why, would I try to compare a mouthpiece from one different type of horn to another? If I wanted to compare a berg larson to insert MP here I would have typed about how they were different on a tenor...you know, the horn they were built for. I don't compare the sounds between alto and bari MPs (or horns for that matter), so why bother with c mel v. tenor? Hey, nice car. Is it as good as my lear jet? No, well, that makes sense. Just wanted to clear things up. I'm new to the c mel, but not to the general concepts surrounding a saxophone.
Captain Muggles User ID: 8945823	Mar 12th 6:08 PM Toxic....I don't know what to make of you. You burst on the scene a little while ago and now you are constant, without letup. Your Lear Jet? What are you talking about? Do you hang out all day and night on this forum. No offense. Just curious. I'm on quite a bit myself. But nowhere near as much as you.
Toxic Oreo User ID: 8785553	Mar 12th 8:17 PM Um...what? I'm here not nearly as often as you are making it sound, complete with your implications that I am here all day/night. Between work, sleep and the other, finer things in life, I am around maybe .5 hours a day if that. If by "burst on the scene" you mean begin posting and then following up said posts I guess you are correct. I wasn't aware that the board etiquette around here was so different then the rest of the internet. The lear jet thing was an illustrating analogy attempting to show how comparing two things that may be the same in practice (transportation devices) really cannot be compared in the least, much like different types of horns. I'll be sure to not attempt to add to this board for at least a few days as apparently I, as a new guy, am not supposed to. Could be a cultural thing, could just be a phenomena unique to the board...who knows. Either way, the information I have gleaned from this board is useful. I'll leave the posting to teh 4 of you whom do it constantly and talk about the same damned things over, and over, and over again.
Captain Muggles User ID: 8945823	Mar 13th 12:03 AM T.O....No need to get grouchy. Post as much as you like. There are no time constraints on this forum. I said "no offense" in my post. Don't be so defensive. Your information and questions are quite viable. At least you're not a mindless moron. If you really choose not to post for a "few days' because of my inquiry. You must be really tempramental. You are also pretty close to right on your comment about "the 4 of you". But that's not gonna stop me from posting! Get over it!
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 13th 5:27 AM Toxic. It is hardly "nitpicking" to raise one's eyebrows at your statement claiming that a C Melody with whatever mouthpiece could make a bigger sound than most tenors that you have blown. Especially as it seems that you have only ever blown two somewhat dodgy C Mels in a secondhand shop. You came here asking our opinion on which C Melody you should buy. It has taken 100 postings for you to take no notice of any advice that we, experienced C Melody players, have offered. The Martin which Jungle Jim pointed out is still available on ebay; it seems an excellent horn. You say, quite rightly, that you want a big sound for your blues band and the Martin offers just that. Instead, you buy probably the most delicate sounding horn from a DEALER. Clearly you do not accept advice; but here is some more....if you play in a blues band (presumably led by amplified guitars), forget the C Melody and play tenor...I know because I have played C Melody in a blues band..it simply does not have the balls. The only possible benefit is the ease of playing in guitar keys. I am assuming that you can play and improvise in concert E and B.
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 13th 9:16 AM Hmm, four people, I don't think that means me :-))
Easy Rider User ID: 8945823	Mar 13th 9:18 AM Ukebert...Yes it does!
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 13th 9:28 AM Shame ;-))
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 13th 9:58 AM Toxic. The reason for the C Mel/tenor mouthpiece comparison is the fact that many of us use Bb tenor pieces exclusively on our C Mels...does that clear up another apparent confusion? Ukebert. Yes it does. :-))
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 13th 11:06 AM Me, ukebert, Bb, Capn. M, Jungle Jim..... 4 ? Now I know I use tenor mpcs on C-Mel, Bb uses a tenor Runyon, Capn M uses a tenor Selmer S/S, as does (possibly) JJ ? Gregs excellent sound samples come from a tenor Berg on a C-Mel. So, with all that musical expertise, I do detect a trend. Bb tenor mpcs do work well on a C-mel, at least for serious musicians ! So we can cross-compare, Toxic. Anyone I haven't included, please don't take that as a criticism of either your musicianship or your seriousness.......... So, whilst I openly acknowledge Steve's mouthpiece (I've only tried the hard rubber one) is excellent, probably the best amongst C-Mel specific mouthpieces - there are a lot of use who use tenor mouthpieces on our C-mels. I have yet to be convinced that the two schools of thought cannot amicably co-exist, dodgy double-negative aside. After all, C-Mel is only a tone away from Bb tenor, and I also happily use Bb Sop mouthpieces on my C-Sop. Preferences apart, it's also because of the woeful lack of choice when it comes to availability of real C-mouthpieces. Unless you want to play in an acoustic retro-20's or community band, both of which are thankfully quite rare this side of the Atlantic.....
Jungle Jim User ID: 9182423	Mar 13th 11:52 AM Alan - Funny you should mention that short shank tenor mouthpiece. I do have one and I purchased it from Muggles for $80 bucks. It works great on my Conn C melody. Its a Selmer metal Jazz model identical to the Captain's. He still has 3 more, including the one he uses.
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Mar 13th 2:18 PM Muggsy, if you're reading this, or still recovering from the birthday party, I'll gladly buy one of remaining the Selmer S/S Jazz's for 80 bucks......... I sold my normal shank "Jazz" (quite open for a Selmer, it was a "G" or maybe even an "H") some years back, and quite miss the cool old thing.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 13th 4:34 PM Alan. I have an old Selmer 3* scroll shank tenor mouthpiece which came with a sax. Not at all sure if this is the sort of thing that you are talking about...very mellow and dark, but it's yours if you want it.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 14th 5:53 AM Jungle Jim. That rebuilt, repadded Martin C Mel. that you pointed out on ebay went for $510. That was a bargain I think as it appeared to be in pristine condition; and it was not sniped at the last second.
Jungle Jim User ID: 9182423	Mar 14th 12:54 PM Alan (UK) - I played a gig with Muggles last night at the Borgata Casino in Atlantic City and asked him about selling the Short Shank selmer Metal Jazz mouthpiece. He said that he has three of them. But he uses one on the Tenor and another on the C melody, leaving one for a spare. So no dice.
Paul(UK) User ID: 8841313	Mar 14th 1:23 PM I may as well put in my tuppence worth, inexperienced as it is. When I first started playing my C I used a stock mouthpiece but found, in particular, A, B & C to be very stuffy so I had a couple of mouthpieces opened up, to a C*, approx, this made a vast if not totally satisfactory improvement. Then following the advice on this site I got hold of 2 tenor mouthpieces and the difference was chalk and cheese, the C's tone was wonderful and I for one will be sticking with tenor pieces, at I will when I have a functioning sax again, sigh.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 15th 9:45 AM Paul, physical dimensions aside, so many of the tenor mouthpieces (especially the brighter ones) have small'ish chambers - probably approaching the original C-mel size. So not surprising that some tenor mpcs excel on C-Mel. E.g Lawton and Berg. If anyone is "bored out of their tree" (I wish !), then it would be a useful exercise to plug some tenor and C-mel mouthpieces at the point where the shank normally ends (in-tune obviously), and carefully check chamber volumes with liquid. Might I suggest Scotch, as the amber colour will make measuring the volume easier....... Results could get a bit inconclusive, after the first couple of tests !
ESB User ID: 1704034	Mar 17th 6:15 AM That martin on ebay that went for $510 a few days ago has somehow made its way to me. I didn't win the auction, nor did I come in second, but the first buyer recinded their bid and the second never responded to the second chance they had on the horn, so I got it for under $500. I got a Beechler 7 here waiting for the horn to show up...should be in the next few days. On a side note, the serial number contains a series of three digits that have haunted me for years; 213. I feel as if I was destined for the horn.