C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / top notes

Next 20 Messages

whitey
User ID: 1202654 Jan 9th 3:44 PM
Can anyone tell me if it's possible to go higher than the F ( i really would love to squeeze out an F# and a high G )on a c melody? Is there a way to get top notes as on a tenor? thanks

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Jan 9th 4:06 PM
Whitey - Same fingerings as on a tenor - except that if your C-mel doesn't have the aux-front-F you either have to slightly open the normal F, or use these three sequential fingerings, below.

Of course it will be nigh on impossible if you're using a 'traditional' C-mel mouthpiece, you have to use the sort of setup that would allow those harmonics on a tenor or alto....

See below, and as detailed on my website at -
http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/question-answer.htm#harmonics

================
Alternate altissimo sequence, NOT using front-F

F# - first + third fingers of the left hand, first finger of the right hand

G - first + third fingers of the left hand, first finger of the right hand, plus side (alt) F#

G# - first + third fingers of the left hand, first finger of the right hand, plus side C-nat.

Note - for the last two notes, if flat then add side Bb.
For 'G' the side of the r.h. 1st finger can open Bb whilst 2nd or 3rd is holding down the alt-F# key .
For 'G#' the side of the r.h. 1st finger can open Bb and/or C-nat key(s), whilst tip is still holding down the pearl.

DeanoThe Saxman (UK)
User ID: 0930774 Jan 10th 4:12 AM
Alan, you really are a mine of info, I usually find that the altissimo fingering for Bb tenor works admirably

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Jan 10th 7:24 AM
Continuing up......A = 2nd & 3rd L/H (plus all 3 right hand if necessary)
Bb= as above but add side D

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Jan 10th 9:43 AM
Deano/Lewis, I used to be able to play almost all the harmonics just on the front-F key - just hear the note and hit it. Sliding altissimo ? Piece of cake..

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Jan 11th 6:52 AM
Alan...I tried your system last night & can see how it works...just THINK the note out.

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8053963 Jan 11th 8:13 AM
Bird (Charlie Parker) once said: "You should be able to say it all in 2 octaves and a Fifth"! I agree to an extent. Although I don't go much higher than A above High F. I certainly enjoy listening to guys like George Young and David Sanborn. It's just not my cup of tea. I was raised listening to BoBoppers who never used the harmonics or "Altissimo" as it is usually called. In essence: They said it all in 2 octaves ans a Fifth. Now I know some of you argumentative types are going to pull some recordings out of the closet citing some older BeBoppers who used the harmonics. I know some of them must have used them "Occasionally". But I am talking about the general practice. Please let it be and accept my statement as My taste and My opinion. No debates Pleeeeeeeeze!

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Jan 11th 8:41 AM
Cap'n...Yes, in my opinion you are right. A friend, a lifelong pro sax player (he has always been employed & has never done anything else)& a Be Bopper, scowls at my altissimo. He says that if God intended saxophones to have more than two octaves & a fifth he would have made it so. Even so, he has altissimo A under his belt for last note screamers.
However, there are thousands of ways of playing the sax. & even if I am not a fan of one particular style, I admire the expertise....no-one is "right", & very few are "wrong".

Captain Muggles
User ID: 8053963 Jan 11th 8:53 AM
Lewis....Cheers on that last post of yours. It says it all! I agree wholeheartedly!

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Jan 11th 9:49 AM
Capn.... Would I ever argue with you ?

Harmonics really came into their own with the likes of Sanborn, Scott, Brecker etc. - the merry band of jazz-funkers, where the extra octave was made to sound a uniform and natural extension, but with a resonant sound all it's own. Before that, most 'high' notes were adventurous controlled squeals.

It came from the desire to rise above the general melee of an amplified band, as most sax lines or 'melodies' were in the upper octave to be heard, then the solo's had to go above that or just be bland. And most tenor (or alto) players wanted to retain the power and volume of their larger horns, but play higher.

I started with a book called "Ted Nash's High Harmonies" - I think first published in the 60's, or even before. So Capn., harmonics are just an option, not compulsory - although I have played in rehearsal big bands (the breeding ground for a lot of our young jazz players) where a few tenor parts called for a high F# or even G. They were arranged long before a high F# key was added to some saxes.

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Jan 11th 9:52 AM
I forgot to mention tha Junior Walker and King Curtis, were prime examples of the 'controlled squeal' style of harmonics. Mostly done on the front-F key using the 'hear it first' principle.

ukebert
User ID: 9112483 Dec 22nd 10:38 AM
here we go again...

WW2
User ID: 8973393 Dec 22nd 11:21 AM
SaraSDS posting deleted. I have blocked the IP address so hopefully this one will not post again. However, if they change IP addresses...

WW2
User ID: 8973393 Dec 22nd 11:23 AM
Perhaps I could close any thread that gets one of these posts. Would that be too much of an inconvience or do you think it might just work?

Jungle Jim
User ID: 0262034 Dec 22nd 12:37 PM
They are like the plague. They will just go to another thread. They are polluters.

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Dec 22nd 1:27 PM
Wade - I don't condone their activity, but it just shows how 'breachable' the internet is. I had my ebay identity stolen a while back, i guess spyware was used to get my password. And they diverted the email address related to the account so I couldn't even get the password reset - all ebay replies to that request went straight to the hackers ! Thankfully all is well now.

Wade - If the fly-posters are using normal internet access accounts, they probably get allocated dynamic IP addresses, not static, so they'll be back..... I don't think the forum 'authentication' is doing much, just seems to be about user id's being unique. Do what you have to, they are a pain..

ukebert
User ID: 9112483 Dec 23rd 8:42 AM
I guess that's the answer to that query...

Sam (IE)
User ID: 0331974 Dec 23rd 4:07 PM
She's back!

Captain Muggles
User ID: 9725373 Dec 23rd 9:35 PM
SaraSDS....Bite me Dirtbag!

Captain Muggles
User ID: 9725373 Dec 23rd 9:49 PM
Wade....I'll remember 5 passwords if I have to in order to keep Dirtballs like SaraSDS off of this forum. SDS must stand for Smutty Dirty Slime! I know it's not politically correct to sling names. But that is truly how I feel about it. What a bummer. This had to happen 2 days before Christmas. Nothing is sacred to this type of weirdo.

Next 20 Messages

whitey User ID: 1202654	Jan 9th 3:44 PM Can anyone tell me if it's possible to go higher than the F ( i really would love to squeeze out an F# and a high G )on a c melody? Is there a way to get top notes as on a tenor? thanks
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Jan 9th 4:06 PM Whitey - Same fingerings as on a tenor - except that if your C-mel doesn't have the aux-front-F you either have to slightly open the normal F, or use these three sequential fingerings, below. Of course it will be nigh on impossible if you're using a 'traditional' C-mel mouthpiece, you have to use the sort of setup that would allow those harmonics on a tenor or alto.... See below, and as detailed on my website at - http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/question-answer.htm#harmonics ================ Alternate altissimo sequence, NOT using front-F F# - first + third fingers of the left hand, first finger of the right hand G - first + third fingers of the left hand, first finger of the right hand, plus side (alt) F# G# - first + third fingers of the left hand, first finger of the right hand, plus side C-nat. Note - for the last two notes, if flat then add side Bb. For 'G' the side of the r.h. 1st finger can open Bb whilst 2nd or 3rd is holding down the alt-F# key . For 'G#' the side of the r.h. 1st finger can open Bb and/or C-nat key(s), whilst tip is still holding down the pearl.
DeanoThe Saxman (UK) User ID: 0930774	Jan 10th 4:12 AM Alan, you really are a mine of info, I usually find that the altissimo fingering for Bb tenor works admirably
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Jan 10th 7:24 AM Continuing up......A = 2nd & 3rd L/H (plus all 3 right hand if necessary) Bb= as above but add side D
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Jan 10th 9:43 AM Deano/Lewis, I used to be able to play almost all the harmonics just on the front-F key - just hear the note and hit it. Sliding altissimo ? Piece of cake..
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Jan 11th 6:52 AM Alan...I tried your system last night & can see how it works...just THINK the note out.
Captain Muggles User ID: 8053963	Jan 11th 8:13 AM Bird (Charlie Parker) once said: "You should be able to say it all in 2 octaves and a Fifth"! I agree to an extent. Although I don't go much higher than A above High F. I certainly enjoy listening to guys like George Young and David Sanborn. It's just not my cup of tea. I was raised listening to BoBoppers who never used the harmonics or "Altissimo" as it is usually called. In essence: They said it all in 2 octaves ans a Fifth. Now I know some of you argumentative types are going to pull some recordings out of the closet citing some older BeBoppers who used the harmonics. I know some of them must have used them "Occasionally". But I am talking about the general practice. Please let it be and accept my statement as My taste and My opinion. No debates Pleeeeeeeeze!
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Jan 11th 8:41 AM Cap'n...Yes, in my opinion you are right. A friend, a lifelong pro sax player (he has always been employed & has never done anything else)& a Be Bopper, scowls at my altissimo. He says that if God intended saxophones to have more than two octaves & a fifth he would have made it so. Even so, he has altissimo A under his belt for last note screamers. However, there are thousands of ways of playing the sax. & even if I am not a fan of one particular style, I admire the expertise....no-one is "right", & very few are "wrong".
Captain Muggles User ID: 8053963	Jan 11th 8:53 AM Lewis....Cheers on that last post of yours. It says it all! I agree wholeheartedly!
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Jan 11th 9:49 AM Capn.... Would I ever argue with you ? Harmonics really came into their own with the likes of Sanborn, Scott, Brecker etc. - the merry band of jazz-funkers, where the extra octave was made to sound a uniform and natural extension, but with a resonant sound all it's own. Before that, most 'high' notes were adventurous controlled squeals. It came from the desire to rise above the general melee of an amplified band, as most sax lines or 'melodies' were in the upper octave to be heard, then the solo's had to go above that or just be bland. And most tenor (or alto) players wanted to retain the power and volume of their larger horns, but play higher. I started with a book called "Ted Nash's High Harmonies" - I think first published in the 60's, or even before. So Capn., harmonics are just an option, not compulsory - although I have played in rehearsal big bands (the breeding ground for a lot of our young jazz players) where a few tenor parts called for a high F# or even G. They were arranged long before a high F# key was added to some saxes.
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Jan 11th 9:52 AM I forgot to mention tha Junior Walker and King Curtis, were prime examples of the 'controlled squeal' style of harmonics. Mostly done on the front-F key using the 'hear it first' principle.
ukebert User ID: 9112483	Dec 22nd 10:38 AM here we go again...
WW2 User ID: 8973393	Dec 22nd 11:21 AM SaraSDS posting deleted. I have blocked the IP address so hopefully this one will not post again. However, if they change IP addresses...
WW2 User ID: 8973393	Dec 22nd 11:23 AM Perhaps I could close any thread that gets one of these posts. Would that be too much of an inconvience or do you think it might just work?
Jungle Jim User ID: 0262034	Dec 22nd 12:37 PM They are like the plague. They will just go to another thread. They are polluters.
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Dec 22nd 1:27 PM Wade - I don't condone their activity, but it just shows how 'breachable' the internet is. I had my ebay identity stolen a while back, i guess spyware was used to get my password. And they diverted the email address related to the account so I couldn't even get the password reset - all ebay replies to that request went straight to the hackers ! Thankfully all is well now. Wade - If the fly-posters are using normal internet access accounts, they probably get allocated dynamic IP addresses, not static, so they'll be back..... I don't think the forum 'authentication' is doing much, just seems to be about user id's being unique. Do what you have to, they are a pain..
ukebert User ID: 9112483	Dec 23rd 8:42 AM I guess that's the answer to that query...
Sam (IE) User ID: 0331974	Dec 23rd 4:07 PM She's back!
Captain Muggles User ID: 9725373	Dec 23rd 9:35 PM SaraSDS....Bite me Dirtbag!
Captain Muggles User ID: 9725373	Dec 23rd 9:49 PM Wade....I'll remember 5 passwords if I have to in order to keep Dirtballs like SaraSDS off of this forum. SDS must stand for Smutty Dirty Slime! I know it's not politically correct to sling names. But that is truly how I feel about it. What a bummer. This had to happen 2 days before Christmas. Nothing is sacred to this type of weirdo.