C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / Steve's Aquilasax

Next 20 Messages Newest 20 Messages

ken Uk
User ID: 1689844 Feb 16th 6:15 PM
Steve,
To help promote the Aquila Sax C tenor how about making a poster for those of us on this site to download and print to show our respective local musical instrument retailers.
Any other ideas?

ukebert
User ID: 9523443 Feb 17th 7:54 AM
I think someone should get Steve Howard to review it, but the poster idea is good. Maybe advertise in some journal or other?

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Feb 17th 11:09 AM
The poster is a very good idea.
May I suggest that it should emphasise the fact that it plays in GUITAR (not oboe or church organ or violin) keys..A = A (440 rules!). Transposing is always a worry for beginners.

Steve
User ID: 0840444 Feb 20th 2:49 AM
I like the poster idea,
Just need a sax to photograph!

And an artist to design it.

The editor of the British sax and clarinet mag is planning on running a story.

Nathan Haines has offered to test it for me.

Any more ideas welcome!

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 1704034 Feb 28th 2:07 PM
Transposing isn't that much of a big deal if it isn't made one. When I started playing when I was 9 I never thought "Oh crap, what is that note in Eb again?" Part of learning a new horn, wether you be old hat at playing a different one or not, is learning how it sounds and working with the sound. I cannot stand it when people who consider themselves accomplished musicians say that they cannot play by ear; they just haven't tried to. Playing by ear is just as difficult as learning how to read music, which is a different language. Once you get the hang of it, though, there is never any going back.

I believe that more emphasis should be placed on being able to play by ear than is currently, but that is a topic for another thread.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Feb 28th 2:46 PM
Toxic.
I could not agree with you more. As a child learning to play the piano I used to ask why I had to read the dots that someone else had written when there was so much music in my head.

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 1704034 Feb 28th 3:45 PM
I annoyed the hell out of my enitre family when I was learning how to play and would start playing riffs I heard on the radio. It was splendid, I tell you! SPLENDID!

I played briefly in a band with a couple of kids in high school and I would drive them crazy by telling them to forget the music in front of them and just play what they heard.

Needless to say, they kicked me out of the band really fast. Ah well. Just wasn't meant to be.

Jungle Jim
User ID: 0262034 Feb 28th 4:34 PM
Playing by ear and being able to improvise anything you hear in your head in any key is a gift from God. YOU CAN NOT LEARN IT no matter how much you practice, unless you have been blessed with that natural gift to begin with. Alan Young told me a story about being in the All Philadelphia High School Jazz Band and practicing at the Philadelphia Academy of Music (the venue of the Philadelphia Orchestra). He was jamming with the rhythm section of the All Philly Jazz Band on tenor sax. After ripping off a solo he was approached by the 1st Clarinet player of the Philadelphia Orchestra who had been watching and listening to him. He said" "Did you write down and memorize that solo you just played"? Alan looked at him and said "No, I just made it up as I went along". The clarinetist then said "I wish I could do that". This is a true story backed up by a sax player by the name of Frankie Cascarelli who was also at that rehearsal and is a friend of Alan's and mine. There are many fine musicians out there that can not improvise nor play by ear. I say "How sad". They don't know what they are missing.

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 1704034 Feb 28th 5:00 PM
I have seen people who couldn't do anything without music figure out how to play by ear through ear training courses in college (I did not major in music, but I got a minor in musical performance). When we started, they were barely able to think in keys or predict key changes. When we left the first class after just one semester it was as if a light was turned on in their heads and they could predict changes by listening to the groove and rock pretty hard.

Exposure, training, repetition and willingness are key. There were some in the classses that refused to think in anything but Mozart and thusly did poorly. It isn't so much an incapability of the musician to learn, more of an unwillingness to step abreast their comfort zone.

Jungle Jim
User ID: 0262034 Feb 28th 6:19 PM
Not everyone in the world can improvise music, especially jazz unless they are gifted. If you can't sing it with your voice or at least hear it in your head. Then you can not learn it, no matter what.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Mar 1st 6:13 AM
It has been said that Bach and Jimi Hendrix would have been the best of chums; they both thought the same way. The only main difference being that Bach wrote down his improvisations whereas Jimi did not.

Toxic Oreo
User ID: 1704034 Mar 1st 8:50 AM
And the whole "Your strange looking cello is run by devil energy" thing.

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 1st 11:28 AM
I learned Piano with the Suzuki method, so I learnt all my pieces for the first 5 years or so by ear, using dots only partially. therefore for a long time my sightreading was awful, but I know which I prefer ;) For one thing I play a lot of folk, which is learnt by ear. In a session, a piece is played through once, and thebn you're expected to join in, whether you know it or not, and it is played only two times again. I know a lot of excellent musicians who couldn't do that. I think that you can learn to play by ear, but improvisation is something different. I personally find Jazz impro quite hard, but "doodling" is a great love of mine, in fact 90% of my practice on any instrument is just that. I usually just play around with Aeolian, Dorian or Myxolydian modes, together with folk chord progressions that i've picked up. Great fun.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 2nd 10:37 AM
There were some recordings a while back with the two violinists - Yehudi Menuhin and Stephane Grappelli - have a listen if you can.

Grappelli just flows, and whilst Menuhin has a great tone and classical technique, he is soooo stiff and not at all fluid, by comparison. But then Grappelli probably isn't so hot on violin concerto's............

Sad thing is, once you acquire any kind of an improvisational style and/or flair, it makes it difficult to read a melody line from music 'as written', when you know damn well it'd sound so much better if you could just s-t-r-e-t-c-h a little ! Been there, had the knuckles rapped many a time !!!

Ukebert - this "Suzuki" method, was there a kick-start fitted to the side of the piano ?

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Mar 2nd 2:38 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_method

It worked for me.

alvi (fin)
User ID: 7650093 Mar 20th 10:09 AM
I'm the only C-Melody saxophone player in Finland playing dixieland like a N.O. style. I'm also wery interested in that new Aquila Saxophone prospect in Australia. My sax is from 1923 Conn made by Elkhart Ind. That has a very practical straight neck with Micro-tuning system. I recommand very warmly that system as a standard equipement. I'm a normal tall 186 cm northern adault man, who has big difficulties to play with a "gooseneck" C-Melody. Is it possible to make true?

Jim B
User ID: 1857214 Mar 21st 9:16 AM
I think alvi is concerned with the gooseneck instruments where the neck bends inward.I have a 1916 conn with gooseneck that makes me play at an angle. Not fun!The Aquila neck might fit.

ESB
User ID: 8785553 Mar 21st 10:30 AM
Never had any issue with either of the styles really myeslf. Straight neck lets me stretch my arms out, curved kinda forces me to re-evaluate just what I am playing everytime I pick the horn up. I had to go to a conversion site to figure out how tall Alvi was (damn the king, and as a fellow 186 cm man I have to say that a curved Martin or stencil isn't THAT bad. Albeit they aren't something I would play for hours without a tenor reprise, but they are bearable. I have noticed that every neck is COMPLETELY different, however, so it could just be your horn. Try finding a loose neck on ebay.

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Mar 21st 10:56 AM
It's always been a bit of an enigma to me, that a C-Mel with a tenor-shaped neck usually plays high and close like an alto ( and the neck can get in the way of reading music..)

But the Conn C-Mel, with an alto shaped neck, plays lower and away from the body, feeling more (to me) like a tenor. Oh well, another C-Mel attribute to prove just how different they really are from the mainstream saxes.......

alvi (fin)
User ID: 7650093 Mar 23rd 4:37 AM
Sorry, ESB! I'm not consentrated in goosenecks. I only liked to examine how it's working. That's why I bought a Martin C Melody. I mean exactly same thing like Alan. The instrument is in very fine condition and it sounds beautyful, but I have big difficulties with it's goose neck to find an amaising playing position and I can't read the music. So I will hold my old Conn C Melody 1923 with straight neck. That's sitting for me perfectly.

Next 20 Messages Newest 20 Messages

ken Uk User ID: 1689844	Feb 16th 6:15 PM Steve, To help promote the Aquila Sax C tenor how about making a poster for those of us on this site to download and print to show our respective local musical instrument retailers. Any other ideas?
ukebert User ID: 9523443	Feb 17th 7:54 AM I think someone should get Steve Howard to review it, but the poster idea is good. Maybe advertise in some journal or other?
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Feb 17th 11:09 AM The poster is a very good idea. May I suggest that it should emphasise the fact that it plays in GUITAR (not oboe or church organ or violin) keys..A = A (440 rules!). Transposing is always a worry for beginners.
Steve User ID: 0840444	Feb 20th 2:49 AM I like the poster idea, Just need a sax to photograph! And an artist to design it. The editor of the British sax and clarinet mag is planning on running a story. Nathan Haines has offered to test it for me. Any more ideas welcome!
Toxic Oreo User ID: 1704034	Feb 28th 2:07 PM Transposing isn't that much of a big deal if it isn't made one. When I started playing when I was 9 I never thought "Oh crap, what is that note in Eb again?" Part of learning a new horn, wether you be old hat at playing a different one or not, is learning how it sounds and working with the sound. I cannot stand it when people who consider themselves accomplished musicians say that they cannot play by ear; they just haven't tried to. Playing by ear is just as difficult as learning how to read music, which is a different language. Once you get the hang of it, though, there is never any going back. I believe that more emphasis should be placed on being able to play by ear than is currently, but that is a topic for another thread.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Feb 28th 2:46 PM Toxic. I could not agree with you more. As a child learning to play the piano I used to ask why I had to read the dots that someone else had written when there was so much music in my head.
Toxic Oreo User ID: 1704034	Feb 28th 3:45 PM I annoyed the hell out of my enitre family when I was learning how to play and would start playing riffs I heard on the radio. It was splendid, I tell you! SPLENDID! I played briefly in a band with a couple of kids in high school and I would drive them crazy by telling them to forget the music in front of them and just play what they heard. Needless to say, they kicked me out of the band really fast. Ah well. Just wasn't meant to be.
Jungle Jim User ID: 0262034	Feb 28th 4:34 PM Playing by ear and being able to improvise anything you hear in your head in any key is a gift from God. YOU CAN NOT LEARN IT no matter how much you practice, unless you have been blessed with that natural gift to begin with. Alan Young told me a story about being in the All Philadelphia High School Jazz Band and practicing at the Philadelphia Academy of Music (the venue of the Philadelphia Orchestra). He was jamming with the rhythm section of the All Philly Jazz Band on tenor sax. After ripping off a solo he was approached by the 1st Clarinet player of the Philadelphia Orchestra who had been watching and listening to him. He said" "Did you write down and memorize that solo you just played"? Alan looked at him and said "No, I just made it up as I went along". The clarinetist then said "I wish I could do that". This is a true story backed up by a sax player by the name of Frankie Cascarelli who was also at that rehearsal and is a friend of Alan's and mine. There are many fine musicians out there that can not improvise nor play by ear. I say "How sad". They don't know what they are missing.
Toxic Oreo User ID: 1704034	Feb 28th 5:00 PM I have seen people who couldn't do anything without music figure out how to play by ear through ear training courses in college (I did not major in music, but I got a minor in musical performance). When we started, they were barely able to think in keys or predict key changes. When we left the first class after just one semester it was as if a light was turned on in their heads and they could predict changes by listening to the groove and rock pretty hard. Exposure, training, repetition and willingness are key. There were some in the classses that refused to think in anything but Mozart and thusly did poorly. It isn't so much an incapability of the musician to learn, more of an unwillingness to step abreast their comfort zone.
Jungle Jim User ID: 0262034	Feb 28th 6:19 PM Not everyone in the world can improvise music, especially jazz unless they are gifted. If you can't sing it with your voice or at least hear it in your head. Then you can not learn it, no matter what.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Mar 1st 6:13 AM It has been said that Bach and Jimi Hendrix would have been the best of chums; they both thought the same way. The only main difference being that Bach wrote down his improvisations whereas Jimi did not.
Toxic Oreo User ID: 1704034	Mar 1st 8:50 AM And the whole "Your strange looking cello is run by devil energy" thing.
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 1st 11:28 AM I learned Piano with the Suzuki method, so I learnt all my pieces for the first 5 years or so by ear, using dots only partially. therefore for a long time my sightreading was awful, but I know which I prefer ;) For one thing I play a lot of folk, which is learnt by ear. In a session, a piece is played through once, and thebn you're expected to join in, whether you know it or not, and it is played only two times again. I know a lot of excellent musicians who couldn't do that. I think that you can learn to play by ear, but improvisation is something different. I personally find Jazz impro quite hard, but "doodling" is a great love of mine, in fact 90% of my practice on any instrument is just that. I usually just play around with Aeolian, Dorian or Myxolydian modes, together with folk chord progressions that i've picked up. Great fun.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 2nd 10:37 AM There were some recordings a while back with the two violinists - Yehudi Menuhin and Stephane Grappelli - have a listen if you can. Grappelli just flows, and whilst Menuhin has a great tone and classical technique, he is soooo stiff and not at all fluid, by comparison. But then Grappelli probably isn't so hot on violin concerto's............ Sad thing is, once you acquire any kind of an improvisational style and/or flair, it makes it difficult to read a melody line from music 'as written', when you know damn well it'd sound so much better if you could just s-t-r-e-t-c-h a little ! Been there, had the knuckles rapped many a time !!! Ukebert - this "Suzuki" method, was there a kick-start fitted to the side of the piano ?
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Mar 2nd 2:38 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_method It worked for me.
alvi (fin) User ID: 7650093	Mar 20th 10:09 AM I'm the only C-Melody saxophone player in Finland playing dixieland like a N.O. style. I'm also wery interested in that new Aquila Saxophone prospect in Australia. My sax is from 1923 Conn made by Elkhart Ind. That has a very practical straight neck with Micro-tuning system. I recommand very warmly that system as a standard equipement. I'm a normal tall 186 cm northern adault man, who has big difficulties to play with a "gooseneck" C-Melody. Is it possible to make true?
Jim B User ID: 1857214	Mar 21st 9:16 AM I think alvi is concerned with the gooseneck instruments where the neck bends inward.I have a 1916 conn with gooseneck that makes me play at an angle. Not fun!The Aquila neck might fit.
ESB User ID: 8785553	Mar 21st 10:30 AM Never had any issue with either of the styles really myeslf. Straight neck lets me stretch my arms out, curved kinda forces me to re-evaluate just what I am playing everytime I pick the horn up. I had to go to a conversion site to figure out how tall Alvi was (damn the king, and as a fellow 186 cm man I have to say that a curved Martin or stencil isn't THAT bad. Albeit they aren't something I would play for hours without a tenor reprise, but they are bearable. I have noticed that every neck is COMPLETELY different, however, so it could just be your horn. Try finding a loose neck on ebay.
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Mar 21st 10:56 AM It's always been a bit of an enigma to me, that a C-Mel with a tenor-shaped neck usually plays high and close like an alto ( and the neck can get in the way of reading music..) But the Conn C-Mel, with an alto shaped neck, plays lower and away from the body, feeling more (to me) like a tenor. Oh well, another C-Mel attribute to prove just how different they really are from the mainstream saxes.......
alvi (fin) User ID: 7650093	Mar 23rd 4:37 AM Sorry, ESB! I'm not consentrated in goosenecks. I only liked to examine how it's working. That's why I bought a Martin C Melody. I mean exactly same thing like Alan. The instrument is in very fine condition and it sounds beautyful, but I have big difficulties with it's goose neck to find an amaising playing position and I can't read the music. So I will hold my old Conn C Melody 1923 with straight neck. That's sitting for me perfectly.