C Melody Saxophone Forum

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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / What a Lovely Sound (cont.)

Next 20 Messages

Castaway
User ID: 9182423 Jul 1st 10:16 AM
Mr Bb; Nowhere on this forum will you see "Keep up the bombardment" posted by either Captain Muggles or me. I posted "Take over the beligerence factor." So I guess we'll have to use another term of endearment to add to your description.: "Unable to read or comprehend". Have a Good Day.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 1st 10:43 AM
Good natured Banter/ Social chat. June 24th 12.51.
Castaway. 8332933 "take over the belligerence factor while he has gone"....remember?

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 1st 11:40 AM
Apologies for not remembering your EXACT wording...such was the impact!
Your word "belligerent" however is defined as "...engaged in war..given to constant fighting...pugnacious..." More than enough, I would have thought to indicate the motives of some of the apparent rednecks on this site.
In fact a stronger word than I inadvertently substituted. Thanks for making my point....second time today...do all the guns in America point vertically down?

Castaway
User ID: 9182423 Jul 1st 12:53 PM
Bb; Yeh, yeh. Trying to worm out of it as usual by psuedo rationalization. You could never, ever be wrong. Your brain might explode.

JR Montrose
User ID: 9711993 Jul 2nd 10:38 AM
I just listened to that sound clip. What a beautiful sound that guy has. I also agree with the guys that say playing in the same keys are a bad thing. It's taking the easy way out. As far as the fellow that is playing Funny Valentine on alto. He is probably playing it in the key of F. That makes the fingering the same as playing a song on the tenor in the key of C. That is a very easy key to play in. That doesn't mean that the player is sub standard. It only means that he has that edge of playing in a comfortable key. He may or may not be able to play a beautiful solo on Funny Valentine in another key. If he is a good professional jazz player, he should be able to knock off a killer solo in any key. If he can't. Then that means that he needs to work on that. If he has all the credits that you say he does. Then he probably can do just that. I am not trying to continue a debate. I am only voicing my professional opinion. Let's just leave it at that. Thanks.DD

Portico
User ID: 0826264 Jul 2nd 11:24 AM
Ditto.

Portico
User ID: 0826264 Jul 2nd 11:30 AM
I meant to say that I also side with the people that say that playing in the key of C or any other key that is an easy or familiar key on a constant basis is a cop out, no matter how good you think you are as a player.

Portico
User ID: 0826264 Jul 2nd 11:45 AM
I just listened to that Nathan Haines live recording. The sound on that c Melody dynamite. It is the best I have ever heard a c Melody sound. It is a sound to strive for.

WW2
User ID: 8973393 Jul 2nd 1:19 PM
That is a lovely sound. I only wish I could play like that in any key. Of course, knowing that I could play like that in a given key, I would certainly ask the band to accomodate me on that song.

As a band director, I frequently change the key of written music to accomodate ease of playing for the musicians in the band. As a saxophonist, I prefer to play with no more than two sharps or flats as this works easiest on saxophones.

However, picking up the C-Melody and Flute has forced me to get comfortable in keys with more flats and sharps than my comfort zone. So, while I am working on expanding my horizons, I will continue to transpose for my marching band as it plays level 2.5 or so music.

Alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Jul 2nd 1:42 PM
Now sanity has prevailed, I'm glad I found that Nathan solo, not that it was hidden, but it's a brilliant 'not too modern' slant on a 20's instrument from a young modern player. So much that potentially could have stumbled, but it's great !

Now to keys, and I had a little chuckle about you all saying how 'easy' it is to play in C.... Never had that luxury, I went from trad/dixie in flat keys to Soul/R&B in sharp keys. I tend to doodle at home in G,D & A (sax keys, not concert, although on a C sax it is..)if I don't engage the brain.

C (on the sax) is horrible if you lean towards the blues scales, all those flats. E is fabulous, just think G-Minor'ish with a root of E - even playing in the key C# (done a LOT of that with alto in blues bands) is a breeze if you think/hear flattened thirds/fifths/sevenths...

I'd just HATE to have to play a blues in C. Except that, (e.g.) on alto, it puts the keyboard/guitar in Eb - just wait for the squeals of protest ! Ever tried it ? 8-))

WW2
User ID: 8973393 Jul 2nd 3:41 PM
Of Course I am coming from the perspective of a Marching Band. The instruments are in C, Bb, F, and Eb (mostly, we do get the occasional odd-ball instrument).

As for "ease of playing" I simply meant not having to reach for all the accidentals, as the instrument's fingering system (Boehm) is designed to be mechanically simplest in "C" for that instrument.

Having said that, this year’s music for my Marching band is in the keys of F major and Eb Major. The Alto Sax and Tenor Sax have it easy in these keys. The C-Sax has a little more work, but it still is only a maximum of 3 flats. Of course, if we ever get our marching guitars, I think they will have a real problem!

Having said that, I hope I never have to try to get the marching band to play in C# or Cb!

Alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Jul 2nd 4:39 PM
If you work with modern (well, 80's onwards....) creative musicians, who creates in 'flat keys' these days ? If a modern 'songwriter' (for want of a better word) sits down at the piano, he/she plays predominantly on the white keys, which instantly puts the contemporary Bb/Eb sax player in sharp keys.

The old 'mood' writing in flat keys has all but vanished. I have to say that playing in the key of C# holds no fears, but put music with a key signature of Db in front of me, and I can instantly feel the stress levels rising.

Stringed instrument players (violins etc.) will, of course, insist that C# and Db are not the same note..... Quite rightly, on fretless instruments.

Cool Runin' Man
User ID: 9725373 Jul 2nd 7:51 PM
Alan (uk)/ My hardest key to play in is B. Especially on the tenor. I can do it alright. But it makes me nervous.

bruce bailey
User ID: 9670323 Jul 3rd 12:10 AM
I agree on the b vs. # keys. Being in the flute business, I am amazed at how well flute players squawk out the b keys and how much better I feel with #s!

Alan (uk)
User ID: 0651814 Jul 3rd 7:38 AM
My mind does start rebelling in the 'very sharp' keys when it (e.g.) encounters a written E - and the key signature says 'E sharp' !

I can almost hear the brain arguing, "but it's a bleedin' F...." Luckily 'muscle memory' quickly overcomes logic..... That's why you really have to practise, and improvise, in all keys.....

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 3rd 8:56 AM
Busking in very sharp keys is fine...reading is another matter; for me at least.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 3rd 9:28 AM
On the piano, I too, found E# difficult.
My music teacher used to remind me that F does not exist (except as an accidental) in any key sharper than C....only to "return", masquerading as E#, in the key of B.

Portico
User ID: 0826264 Jul 3rd 2:44 PM
The flat is back. Ooorah.

jazzbug1
User ID: 9265663 Jul 3rd 6:11 PM
I started as a young teen playing rock-n-roll with beginner guitar players, so 5 sharps is not very difficult for me to improvise in. 6 or 7 sharps becomes less flowing. Trying to read in these keys is very difficult, however. I had a variable speed Garrard turntable, which I recently sold on Ebay for $2600 (couldn't resist), but I found another one for $50.00, so I set the record up a 1/2 step and improvise against it for practice. David Sanborn (tone=ugh) learned to play in difficult keys with his guitar friends also when a kid. Practice: practice!

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Jul 4th 4:11 AM
jb1.
Your expression "less flowing" pretty well sums it up. It is not lack of proficiency which limits playing in F# and C#...rather more the mechanical layout of the keywork. Guitarists just move to a different fret and do the same thing...not so for a sax.

Next 20 Messages

Castaway User ID: 9182423	Jul 1st 10:16 AM Mr Bb; Nowhere on this forum will you see "Keep up the bombardment" posted by either Captain Muggles or me. I posted "Take over the beligerence factor." So I guess we'll have to use another term of endearment to add to your description.: "Unable to read or comprehend". Have a Good Day.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 1st 10:43 AM Good natured Banter/ Social chat. June 24th 12.51. Castaway. 8332933 "take over the belligerence factor while he has gone"....remember?
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 1st 11:40 AM Apologies for not remembering your EXACT wording...such was the impact! Your word "belligerent" however is defined as "...engaged in war..given to constant fighting...pugnacious..." More than enough, I would have thought to indicate the motives of some of the apparent rednecks on this site. In fact a stronger word than I inadvertently substituted. Thanks for making my point....second time today...do all the guns in America point vertically down?
Castaway User ID: 9182423	Jul 1st 12:53 PM Bb; Yeh, yeh. Trying to worm out of it as usual by psuedo rationalization. You could never, ever be wrong. Your brain might explode.
JR Montrose User ID: 9711993	Jul 2nd 10:38 AM I just listened to that sound clip. What a beautiful sound that guy has. I also agree with the guys that say playing in the same keys are a bad thing. It's taking the easy way out. As far as the fellow that is playing Funny Valentine on alto. He is probably playing it in the key of F. That makes the fingering the same as playing a song on the tenor in the key of C. That is a very easy key to play in. That doesn't mean that the player is sub standard. It only means that he has that edge of playing in a comfortable key. He may or may not be able to play a beautiful solo on Funny Valentine in another key. If he is a good professional jazz player, he should be able to knock off a killer solo in any key. If he can't. Then that means that he needs to work on that. If he has all the credits that you say he does. Then he probably can do just that. I am not trying to continue a debate. I am only voicing my professional opinion. Let's just leave it at that. Thanks.DD
Portico User ID: 0826264	Jul 2nd 11:24 AM Ditto.
Portico User ID: 0826264	Jul 2nd 11:30 AM I meant to say that I also side with the people that say that playing in the key of C or any other key that is an easy or familiar key on a constant basis is a cop out, no matter how good you think you are as a player.
Portico User ID: 0826264	Jul 2nd 11:45 AM I just listened to that Nathan Haines live recording. The sound on that c Melody dynamite. It is the best I have ever heard a c Melody sound. It is a sound to strive for.
WW2 User ID: 8973393	Jul 2nd 1:19 PM That is a lovely sound. I only wish I could play like that in any key. Of course, knowing that I could play like that in a given key, I would certainly ask the band to accomodate me on that song. As a band director, I frequently change the key of written music to accomodate ease of playing for the musicians in the band. As a saxophonist, I prefer to play with no more than two sharps or flats as this works easiest on saxophones. However, picking up the C-Melody and Flute has forced me to get comfortable in keys with more flats and sharps than my comfort zone. So, while I am working on expanding my horizons, I will continue to transpose for my marching band as it plays level 2.5 or so music.
Alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Jul 2nd 1:42 PM Now sanity has prevailed, I'm glad I found that Nathan solo, not that it was hidden, but it's a brilliant 'not too modern' slant on a 20's instrument from a young modern player. So much that potentially could have stumbled, but it's great ! Now to keys, and I had a little chuckle about you all saying how 'easy' it is to play in C.... Never had that luxury, I went from trad/dixie in flat keys to Soul/R&B in sharp keys. I tend to doodle at home in G,D & A (sax keys, not concert, although on a C sax it is..)if I don't engage the brain. C (on the sax) is horrible if you lean towards the blues scales, all those flats. E is fabulous, just think G-Minor'ish with a root of E - even playing in the key C# (done a LOT of that with alto in blues bands) is a breeze if you think/hear flattened thirds/fifths/sevenths... I'd just HATE to have to play a blues in C. Except that, (e.g.) on alto, it puts the keyboard/guitar in Eb - just wait for the squeals of protest ! Ever tried it ? 8-))
WW2 User ID: 8973393	Jul 2nd 3:41 PM Of Course I am coming from the perspective of a Marching Band. The instruments are in C, Bb, F, and Eb (mostly, we do get the occasional odd-ball instrument). As for "ease of playing" I simply meant not having to reach for all the accidentals, as the instrument's fingering system (Boehm) is designed to be mechanically simplest in "C" for that instrument. Having said that, this year’s music for my Marching band is in the keys of F major and Eb Major. The Alto Sax and Tenor Sax have it easy in these keys. The C-Sax has a little more work, but it still is only a maximum of 3 flats. Of course, if we ever get our marching guitars, I think they will have a real problem! Having said that, I hope I never have to try to get the marching band to play in C# or Cb!
Alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Jul 2nd 4:39 PM If you work with modern (well, 80's onwards....) creative musicians, who creates in 'flat keys' these days ? If a modern 'songwriter' (for want of a better word) sits down at the piano, he/she plays predominantly on the white keys, which instantly puts the contemporary Bb/Eb sax player in sharp keys. The old 'mood' writing in flat keys has all but vanished. I have to say that playing in the key of C# holds no fears, but put music with a key signature of Db in front of me, and I can instantly feel the stress levels rising. Stringed instrument players (violins etc.) will, of course, insist that C# and Db are not the same note..... Quite rightly, on fretless instruments.
Cool Runin' Man User ID: 9725373	Jul 2nd 7:51 PM Alan (uk)/ My hardest key to play in is B. Especially on the tenor. I can do it alright. But it makes me nervous.
bruce bailey User ID: 9670323	Jul 3rd 12:10 AM I agree on the b vs. # keys. Being in the flute business, I am amazed at how well flute players squawk out the b keys and how much better I feel with #s!
Alan (uk) User ID: 0651814	Jul 3rd 7:38 AM My mind does start rebelling in the 'very sharp' keys when it (e.g.) encounters a written E - and the key signature says 'E sharp' ! I can almost hear the brain arguing, "but it's a bleedin' F...." Luckily 'muscle memory' quickly overcomes logic..... That's why you really have to practise, and improvise, in all keys.....
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 3rd 8:56 AM Busking in very sharp keys is fine...reading is another matter; for me at least.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 3rd 9:28 AM On the piano, I too, found E# difficult. My music teacher used to remind me that F does not exist (except as an accidental) in any key sharper than C....only to "return", masquerading as E#, in the key of B.
Portico User ID: 0826264	Jul 3rd 2:44 PM The flat is back. Ooorah.
jazzbug1 User ID: 9265663	Jul 3rd 6:11 PM I started as a young teen playing rock-n-roll with beginner guitar players, so 5 sharps is not very difficult for me to improvise in. 6 or 7 sharps becomes less flowing. Trying to read in these keys is very difficult, however. I had a variable speed Garrard turntable, which I recently sold on Ebay for $2600 (couldn't resist), but I found another one for $50.00, so I set the record up a 1/2 step and improvise against it for practice. David Sanborn (tone=ugh) learned to play in difficult keys with his guitar friends also when a kid. Practice: practice!
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Jul 4th 4:11 AM jb1. Your expression "less flowing" pretty well sums it up. It is not lack of proficiency which limits playing in F# and C#...rather more the mechanical layout of the keywork. Guitarists just move to a different fret and do the same thing...not so for a sax.