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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / "Lyon & Healy"

Next 20 Messages

DeanoTheSaxman@aol.c
User ID: 1265504 Nov 14th 7:50 AM
Has anybody ever seen a Lyon & Healy fitted with a Conn micro-tune neck? I have one in my possession at the mo and it has this, it is also definitely a Buescher stencil "Formed Tone Holes" and has the circular G# pinkie key, no Martin tone holes ????
Anybody got any ideas, the serial number is 119636
any ideas will be greatly appreciated :-)

Captain Muggles
User ID: 0157524 Nov 14th 8:25 AM
Deano....Most likely, someone put a Conn microtuner neck on it. But then again, I don't know for sure. Try to find a Conn microtuner neck and compare it to it!

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 14th 9:02 AM
Deano - if you want, I can do some close-ups of a Conn microtuner neck for comparison. I've used a Buescher curved neck on several Conns (so I could use my long-shank tenor mpcs), the tenon size is about the same.

Switcharoony I guess...

DeanoTheSaxman (UK)
User ID: 1265504 Nov 14th 2:07 PM
Guy's the Conn micro tuner neck doesn't actually fit the buescher body, I think someone has just put the two together to sell it, the neck is a conn neck as I have a Conn c mel here and it's identical, it fits perfectly. Anybody got a neck that will fit the lyon & Healy or Buescher???? I now have a sax with out a neck OOppSS ?????

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 14th 4:13 PM
Only one ? If you want another (without a neck) to keep it company, I'm sure there are several on this forum - including me - who could oblige...

In all seriousness, the tenon/socket difference won't be great, might be worth investigating if they could be mated ?

DeanoTheSaxman (UK)
User ID: 8353323 Nov 15th 3:18 AM
Wouldn't take alot to mate them Alan, there is on 0.2m/m in it, the neck starts to go in about 5m/m then it won't move any more, it looks like it has been used like this, although how they ever got the octave lever to work is beyond me cos the octave arm going to the neck was bent at 45 degrees??????

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 15th 4:26 AM
Classic shipping damage ? Did it come to you without a neck plug ? That little recess in the case, for the neck plug, can do a real 'job' on the sticking-out octave mech without some kind of protection......

DeanoTheSaxman (UK)
User ID: 8353323 Nov 15th 6:45 AM
Classic shipping damage for the octave arm yes, it is without neck plug hence the subject on neck plugs earlier last week, but I've never seen a neck change diameter like this. It's obviously the wrong neck for the sax, the neck is conn definitely. Sadly the sax is not conn hence the miss match.

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 15th 7:30 AM
So somewhere there's a Conn with a Buescher neck ?

Did you ever look at my Conn ? check out the last pic - it's with a Buescher stencil neck.... (sorry about download time if you're not on broadband)

http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/conn-sneck.htm

Ralph
User ID: 7949453 Nov 15th 10:21 AM
One of the first C-Mel's I bought came without a neck. It was a Conn stencil "Grand Opera". The same brand my orchestra director loaned me and got me started down/up this road of music. This sax did not have a neck plug, BUT the remaining tenon portion of the neck was still in the body. So a neck can be fitted.

The Conn necks will not interchange with the Buescher necks that I have. But the Conn and Conn stencil necks will swap.

I would say that 30% of the saxes I have bought came without necks. But I'm on the economy end of the spectrum for the most part.

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 15th 11:04 AM
Ralph - I have Conn stencil, with the neck tenon still in the body - it's really about is good as you can wish for (without the actual neck), because any repacement neck - within reason - is at least going to be a good fit once soldered to that tenon !

ukebert
User ID: 1446254 Nov 15th 11:07 AM
That's assuming you can get the tenon out :-))

DeanoTheSaxman (UK)
User ID: 8353323 Nov 15th 2:10 PM
I have a wurlitzer, a holton, a conn, and all are c melody and non of the necks fit the Lyon & Healy? how unlucky is that?

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 15th 2:25 PM
ukebert - hot air on the outside of the socket, and a frozen ice popsicle wedged in the tenon. Inside contracts, outside expands, and drink the popsicle afterwards !

The necks were just pretending to be Martin toneholes dropping off, crap solder, nice to see it happens to Conns as well..........
:-))

DeanoTheSaxman (UK)
User ID: 8353323 Nov 16th 2:43 PM
My Wurlitzer stencil is a Martin, imagine my joy when I opened the case to find out this, I bought it thinking it was a Buescher. It now looks scrummy!!!!!

Wolf 1w
User ID: 0192094 Dec 26th 9:35 PM
Any info on a Lyon & Healy C Melody. The serial # is 201111 and I am curious if this a Martin stencil? Has an engraving of an indian on the bell. Although I am a "Tenor Man" want to explore the world of C Mels. Any info would be helpful. Thanx Wolf "howlin at the moon"

Loomevarkmams
User ID: 3160124 Oct 29th 1:15 PM
Oups...

jazzbug1
User ID: 0735934 Oct 31st 7:00 AM
The Lyon and Healy saxophones had some beautiful picture engravings on the bell. Quite unique. Unfortunately, the Buescher had the smallest bore of the major instrument makers, so the neck tenon will have to be changed. Since the Conn neck is considerably larger, the final intonation may be faulty. I suggest putting the Microtuner neck on Ebay, as they usually go for $150 and buy a junky condition Buescher with a neck, which may be had for about $100. Hang the neckless Buescher on the wall.

Cool Runnin' Man
User ID: 9725373 Nov 1st 4:37 PM
A lot of the Wurlitzer Stencil C Melody's were Martins. In fact, a lot of their Altos & Tenor stencils were Martins. My first alto sax was a Martin stencil under the Wurlitzer name. I paid $45.00 for it in 1960. It was Gold Plated and played like a dream.

bruce bailey
User ID: 9690803 Nov 2nd 1:37 AM
Here is my take on the stencils. L&H had Bueschers, a very few Kings and mostly Martinish ones made by Courturier. The Courturier ones were marked thus and after 1928 they were owned by L&H. These have a larger bore at least at the top end. Martin tone holes and they add an L shaped G#/C# pinky key that opens both cups. A bit ahead of their time. Another sometimes nice feature is that the palm keys are interlocking. When you press Eb, it opens D also and with F it opens all three making high F easier as only one key needs to be depressed. The downside is that when attempting high F#, you cannot finger A2 and add the F as it opens the set.
Many other stencils are wrongly called Martins. These were built by the Indiana Band Inst. Co. which was bought by Martin in 1928. I suspect that they are more Martin than the above L&H ones. Often they have the body rings made up with stipes. For the most part these are identical to standard Martin HCs. All of the Wurlitzers I have owned are like these. I own 2 Wurlitzer curved sopranos and one is pure Martin and the other is a Buescher TT series 2. I saw one on ebay from the early teens that was a Conn New Invention or Wonder model. These stencils are as good as the branded ones and are bargains at about half the price. My L&H straight Bb soprano is one of the best horns I own. If anyone is interested, I am selling some of these in alto and soprano form as I just have gotten out of control and bought too many. Some are ready to go and others need everything.
Sorry to ramble on here.....

Next 20 Messages

DeanoTheSaxman@aol.c User ID: 1265504	Nov 14th 7:50 AM Has anybody ever seen a Lyon & Healy fitted with a Conn micro-tune neck? I have one in my possession at the mo and it has this, it is also definitely a Buescher stencil "Formed Tone Holes" and has the circular G# pinkie key, no Martin tone holes ???? Anybody got any ideas, the serial number is 119636 any ideas will be greatly appreciated :-)
Captain Muggles User ID: 0157524	Nov 14th 8:25 AM Deano....Most likely, someone put a Conn microtuner neck on it. But then again, I don't know for sure. Try to find a Conn microtuner neck and compare it to it!
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 14th 9:02 AM Deano - if you want, I can do some close-ups of a Conn microtuner neck for comparison. I've used a Buescher curved neck on several Conns (so I could use my long-shank tenor mpcs), the tenon size is about the same. Switcharoony I guess...
DeanoTheSaxman (UK) User ID: 1265504	Nov 14th 2:07 PM Guy's the Conn micro tuner neck doesn't actually fit the buescher body, I think someone has just put the two together to sell it, the neck is a conn neck as I have a Conn c mel here and it's identical, it fits perfectly. Anybody got a neck that will fit the lyon & Healy or Buescher???? I now have a sax with out a neck OOppSS ?????
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 14th 4:13 PM Only one ? If you want another (without a neck) to keep it company, I'm sure there are several on this forum - including me - who could oblige... In all seriousness, the tenon/socket difference won't be great, might be worth investigating if they could be mated ?
DeanoTheSaxman (UK) User ID: 8353323	Nov 15th 3:18 AM Wouldn't take alot to mate them Alan, there is on 0.2m/m in it, the neck starts to go in about 5m/m then it won't move any more, it looks like it has been used like this, although how they ever got the octave lever to work is beyond me cos the octave arm going to the neck was bent at 45 degrees??????
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 15th 4:26 AM Classic shipping damage ? Did it come to you without a neck plug ? That little recess in the case, for the neck plug, can do a real 'job' on the sticking-out octave mech without some kind of protection......
DeanoTheSaxman (UK) User ID: 8353323	Nov 15th 6:45 AM Classic shipping damage for the octave arm yes, it is without neck plug hence the subject on neck plugs earlier last week, but I've never seen a neck change diameter like this. It's obviously the wrong neck for the sax, the neck is conn definitely. Sadly the sax is not conn hence the miss match.
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 15th 7:30 AM So somewhere there's a Conn with a Buescher neck ? Did you ever look at my Conn ? check out the last pic - it's with a Buescher stencil neck.... (sorry about download time if you're not on broadband) http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/saxophones/conn-sneck.htm
Ralph User ID: 7949453	Nov 15th 10:21 AM One of the first C-Mel's I bought came without a neck. It was a Conn stencil "Grand Opera". The same brand my orchestra director loaned me and got me started down/up this road of music. This sax did not have a neck plug, BUT the remaining tenon portion of the neck was still in the body. So a neck can be fitted. The Conn necks will not interchange with the Buescher necks that I have. But the Conn and Conn stencil necks will swap. I would say that 30% of the saxes I have bought came without necks. But I'm on the economy end of the spectrum for the most part.
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 15th 11:04 AM Ralph - I have Conn stencil, with the neck tenon still in the body - it's really about is good as you can wish for (without the actual neck), because any repacement neck - within reason - is at least going to be a good fit once soldered to that tenon !
ukebert User ID: 1446254	Nov 15th 11:07 AM That's assuming you can get the tenon out :-))
DeanoTheSaxman (UK) User ID: 8353323	Nov 15th 2:10 PM I have a wurlitzer, a holton, a conn, and all are c melody and non of the necks fit the Lyon & Healy? how unlucky is that?
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 15th 2:25 PM ukebert - hot air on the outside of the socket, and a frozen ice popsicle wedged in the tenon. Inside contracts, outside expands, and drink the popsicle afterwards ! The necks were just pretending to be Martin toneholes dropping off, crap solder, nice to see it happens to Conns as well.......... :-))
DeanoTheSaxman (UK) User ID: 8353323	Nov 16th 2:43 PM My Wurlitzer stencil is a Martin, imagine my joy when I opened the case to find out this, I bought it thinking it was a Buescher. It now looks scrummy!!!!!
Wolf 1w User ID: 0192094	Dec 26th 9:35 PM Any info on a Lyon & Healy C Melody. The serial # is 201111 and I am curious if this a Martin stencil? Has an engraving of an indian on the bell. Although I am a "Tenor Man" want to explore the world of C Mels. Any info would be helpful. Thanx Wolf "howlin at the moon"
Loomevarkmams User ID: 3160124	Oct 29th 1:15 PM Oups...
jazzbug1 User ID: 0735934	Oct 31st 7:00 AM The Lyon and Healy saxophones had some beautiful picture engravings on the bell. Quite unique. Unfortunately, the Buescher had the smallest bore of the major instrument makers, so the neck tenon will have to be changed. Since the Conn neck is considerably larger, the final intonation may be faulty. I suggest putting the Microtuner neck on Ebay, as they usually go for $150 and buy a junky condition Buescher with a neck, which may be had for about $100. Hang the neckless Buescher on the wall.
Cool Runnin' Man User ID: 9725373	Nov 1st 4:37 PM A lot of the Wurlitzer Stencil C Melody's were Martins. In fact, a lot of their Altos & Tenor stencils were Martins. My first alto sax was a Martin stencil under the Wurlitzer name. I paid $45.00 for it in 1960. It was Gold Plated and played like a dream.
bruce bailey User ID: 9690803	Nov 2nd 1:37 AM Here is my take on the stencils. L&H had Bueschers, a very few Kings and mostly Martinish ones made by Courturier. The Courturier ones were marked thus and after 1928 they were owned by L&H. These have a larger bore at least at the top end. Martin tone holes and they add an L shaped G#/C# pinky key that opens both cups. A bit ahead of their time. Another sometimes nice feature is that the palm keys are interlocking. When you press Eb, it opens D also and with F it opens all three making high F easier as only one key needs to be depressed. The downside is that when attempting high F#, you cannot finger A2 and add the F as it opens the set. Many other stencils are wrongly called Martins. These were built by the Indiana Band Inst. Co. which was bought by Martin in 1928. I suspect that they are more Martin than the above L&H ones. Often they have the body rings made up with stipes. For the most part these are identical to standard Martin HCs. All of the Wurlitzers I have owned are like these. I own 2 Wurlitzer curved sopranos and one is pure Martin and the other is a Buescher TT series 2. I saw one on ebay from the early teens that was a Conn New Invention or Wonder model. These stencils are as good as the branded ones and are bargains at about half the price. My L&H straight Bb soprano is one of the best horns I own. If anyone is interested, I am selling some of these in alto and soprano form as I just have gotten out of control and bought too many. Some are ready to go and others need everything. Sorry to ramble on here.....