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C Melody Saxophone Forum / C-Tenor (C-Melody) Saxophones / The New Aquilasax C - part II '08

Back 20 Messages

Alan (UK) '08
User ID: 1731514 Jan 15th 4:30 PM
Snarky - thanks for closing the old topic, but I think that there are still some things to be resolved...

Steve.
User ID: 1007814 Feb 20th 4:59 AM
Sorry about the wait guys,
For you it's annoying, for me it's financially crippling.
Very interesting fixes Mal 2!
The problem had me baffled for a while as it coincided with the octave vent opening but changing the size and position of the vent made no difference.
Turns out the neck mold was made too fat. Reducing the neck width (to the same as the original test prototype)brought all the notes into line.
New repalcement necks will be posted out to those who need them free of course.

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 Feb 20th 10:35 PM
Steve:

I have pre-ordered a black nickel C-mel with eagle engraving, but if it helps your cause any, I am perfectly happy to take an instrument with a different finish, engraving, or both -- especially the engraving, as I doubt you have any ugly options on the list. I've always wanted a black horn since I first saw them, but it's just a vanity thing. I'd prefer not to have plain lacquer because I have had bad histories with retaining lacquer (I think I have acidic skin), but it's not a huge problem if that's all you have available. I'll want to order a Metalpro mouthpiece to match, even if my metal Otto Link 8* tenor piece would work, because I can foresee having all of them in front of me at the same time and switching a mouthpiece is awkward at best. (Not so bad when switching clarinets, since they usually just get jammed all the way in.)

I have updated Wikipedia to reflect a March/April shipping for the C-mels. If this is wrong, please do correct me and I will update again. There is no better reference than you!

I've also recommended you to people looking for instruments for their kids, or even themselves, though they would be more inclined to buy the usual Eb/Bb band instruments.

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 Feb 20th 10:44 PM
I have posted more pictures of the various tweaks and hacks on my Jupiter alto here:

http://mal-2.com/sax/alto-mods1.jpg
http://mal-2.com/sax/alto-mods2.jpg
http://mal-2.com/sax/alto-mods3.jpg

The captions are embedded in the pictures. This is what I do when I'm too lazy to write proper HTML. :)

Most likely, I will be corking the palm keys and side keys of any new horn I buy, and possibly shimming tone holes as necessary, but I will try to keep permanent mods to a bare minimum with anything new. I only got adventurous with the Jupiter because it looks like it has decades of mileage on it (though I've only had it about 15 years). It plays better than it looks, especially with brand new pads, so I'm not looking to replace it, and I'm not concerned with its resale value. Like a cheap used car, I will just keep playing it until it's no longer cost-effective to maintain it at an acceptable quality level.

That's the fate of my tenor, which came out of its case during a flight from Los Angeles to Miami and has never really been trustworthy since. I'm hoping that with the addition of a C-mel, I won't really miss it, but I won't get rid of it -- better a beat-up, marginally playable tenor than no tenor at all, if that's what the gig absolutely requires. Anyone know how to cram a low A and A-flat onto a C-mel so I REALLY have a tenor substitute? :)

soybean
User ID: 0401124 Feb 21st 12:58 PM
Mal, you're my hero. Someday i want to try all of your mods. A couple of questions: what type of epoxy do you use for key risers? I assume that your risers are permanent and can't be removed easily. The bathtub enamel and auto body paint combi looks good in the photos. Do you have a spray booth and paint spray equipment?

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 Feb 21st 8:29 PM
The epoxy is from an auto parts store, though it's really not the best way to go (it weighs too much). If you have the time and patience, you're better off cutting and filing wine corks and gluing those on, as they weigh almost nothing.

The epoxy is rather difficult to remove, but not impossible. If I did want to remove the risers, I'd probably just take a pair of pliers and crush them, then scrape off whatever was left with a knife. The particular type I chose is like the ones available here:

http://www.dickblick.com/zz238/17/

This is not an endorsement, that's just the first thing I found that reasonably matched what I used.

Anyhow, this has the consistency of Silly Putty, which means it's easy to work with, and the setting time is short enough to not be annoying, but long enough to finish the job neatly. Other epoxies are generally liquids or pastes, which are harder to manage without getting them everywhere.

As for the spray booth -- no, I just did it in my garage. Bathtub enamel alone is quite enough for protection, and if you like the resulting gloss white finish, then you're done. I left it white for a couple of years before I put the blue over the top of it. In both spray sessions, I did completely disassemble the instrument where the body meets the bow curve, so I had less to worry about with regards to overspray. To keep the tone holes and inside from getting paint in them, I put masking tape on the inside rim the holes and stuffed the inside full of paper. Previously, a friend and I had stripped the lacquer from parts of various instruments we were willing to tinker with, but I found little benefit and lots of nuisance, not being able to touch anything without causing brown stains. The neck I left bare longer, but even that was enough of a nuisance that I coated it too (though not as thick).

soybean
User ID: 0401124 Feb 25th 2:13 AM
Ahh, thanks for the info.

alan (uk) '08
User ID: 1278884 Mar 5th 2:10 PM
Whilst Steve is keeping quiet, as the factory has probably just come back off holiday, listen to the mp3 of Nathan Haines playing the new (but original, pre-mods...) Aquilasax, with an alto berg.

I added just a touch of reverb...

http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/wpblog/nathan-haines-aquilasax.mp3

Mal-2K8
User ID: 9335603 Mar 5th 8:25 PM
Not totally silent -- I asked him yesterday what the wait time might be for someone NOT on the pre-order list, and he said "I don't think I'll have any spares before May." Reading between the lines, I think that means those of us who ARE on the pre-order list might be seeing ours between now and then...

Back 20 Messages

Alan (UK) '08 User ID: 1731514	Jan 15th 4:30 PM Snarky - thanks for closing the old topic, but I think that there are still some things to be resolved...
Steve. User ID: 1007814	Feb 20th 4:59 AM Sorry about the wait guys, For you it's annoying, for me it's financially crippling. Very interesting fixes Mal 2! The problem had me baffled for a while as it coincided with the octave vent opening but changing the size and position of the vent made no difference. Turns out the neck mold was made too fat. Reducing the neck width (to the same as the original test prototype)brought all the notes into line. New repalcement necks will be posted out to those who need them free of course.
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Feb 20th 10:35 PM Steve: I have pre-ordered a black nickel C-mel with eagle engraving, but if it helps your cause any, I am perfectly happy to take an instrument with a different finish, engraving, or both -- especially the engraving, as I doubt you have any ugly options on the list. I've always wanted a black horn since I first saw them, but it's just a vanity thing. I'd prefer not to have plain lacquer because I have had bad histories with retaining lacquer (I think I have acidic skin), but it's not a huge problem if that's all you have available. I'll want to order a Metalpro mouthpiece to match, even if my metal Otto Link 8* tenor piece would work, because I can foresee having all of them in front of me at the same time and switching a mouthpiece is awkward at best. (Not so bad when switching clarinets, since they usually just get jammed all the way in.) I have updated Wikipedia to reflect a March/April shipping for the C-mels. If this is wrong, please do correct me and I will update again. There is no better reference than you! I've also recommended you to people looking for instruments for their kids, or even themselves, though they would be more inclined to buy the usual Eb/Bb band instruments.
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Feb 20th 10:44 PM I have posted more pictures of the various tweaks and hacks on my Jupiter alto here: http://mal-2.com/sax/alto-mods1.jpg http://mal-2.com/sax/alto-mods2.jpg http://mal-2.com/sax/alto-mods3.jpg The captions are embedded in the pictures. This is what I do when I'm too lazy to write proper HTML. :) Most likely, I will be corking the palm keys and side keys of any new horn I buy, and possibly shimming tone holes as necessary, but I will try to keep permanent mods to a bare minimum with anything new. I only got adventurous with the Jupiter because it looks like it has decades of mileage on it (though I've only had it about 15 years). It plays better than it looks, especially with brand new pads, so I'm not looking to replace it, and I'm not concerned with its resale value. Like a cheap used car, I will just keep playing it until it's no longer cost-effective to maintain it at an acceptable quality level. That's the fate of my tenor, which came out of its case during a flight from Los Angeles to Miami and has never really been trustworthy since. I'm hoping that with the addition of a C-mel, I won't really miss it, but I won't get rid of it -- better a beat-up, marginally playable tenor than no tenor at all, if that's what the gig absolutely requires. Anyone know how to cram a low A and A-flat onto a C-mel so I REALLY have a tenor substitute? :)
soybean User ID: 0401124	Feb 21st 12:58 PM Mal, you're my hero. Someday i want to try all of your mods. A couple of questions: what type of epoxy do you use for key risers? I assume that your risers are permanent and can't be removed easily. The bathtub enamel and auto body paint combi looks good in the photos. Do you have a spray booth and paint spray equipment?
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Feb 21st 8:29 PM The epoxy is from an auto parts store, though it's really not the best way to go (it weighs too much). If you have the time and patience, you're better off cutting and filing wine corks and gluing those on, as they weigh almost nothing. The epoxy is rather difficult to remove, but not impossible. If I did want to remove the risers, I'd probably just take a pair of pliers and crush them, then scrape off whatever was left with a knife. The particular type I chose is like the ones available here: http://www.dickblick.com/zz238/17/ This is not an endorsement, that's just the first thing I found that reasonably matched what I used. Anyhow, this has the consistency of Silly Putty, which means it's easy to work with, and the setting time is short enough to not be annoying, but long enough to finish the job neatly. Other epoxies are generally liquids or pastes, which are harder to manage without getting them everywhere. As for the spray booth -- no, I just did it in my garage. Bathtub enamel alone is quite enough for protection, and if you like the resulting gloss white finish, then you're done. I left it white for a couple of years before I put the blue over the top of it. In both spray sessions, I did completely disassemble the instrument where the body meets the bow curve, so I had less to worry about with regards to overspray. To keep the tone holes and inside from getting paint in them, I put masking tape on the inside rim the holes and stuffed the inside full of paper. Previously, a friend and I had stripped the lacquer from parts of various instruments we were willing to tinker with, but I found little benefit and lots of nuisance, not being able to touch anything without causing brown stains. The neck I left bare longer, but even that was enough of a nuisance that I coated it too (though not as thick).
soybean User ID: 0401124	Feb 25th 2:13 AM Ahh, thanks for the info.
alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1278884	Mar 5th 2:10 PM Whilst Steve is keeping quiet, as the factory has probably just come back off holiday, listen to the mp3 of Nathan Haines playing the new (but original, pre-mods...) Aquilasax, with an alto berg. I added just a touch of reverb... http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/wpblog/nathan-haines-aquilasax.mp3
Mal-2K8 User ID: 9335603	Mar 5th 8:25 PM Not totally silent -- I asked him yesterday what the wait time might be for someone NOT on the pre-order list, and he said "I don't think I'll have any spares before May." Reading between the lines, I think that means those of us who ARE on the pre-order list might be seeing ours between now and then...