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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Good Natured Banter / Global Warming

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Sir Edmund KT
User ID: 1516194 Sep 23rd 9:06 AM
So yet another hurricane is on its way, this time hurricane Rita. People are heeding the warnings and moving away from the areas at risk. I've seen reported on the news 100 mile road jams; so many more vehicles pumping out greenhouse gases to pollute the atmosphere and contribute to global warming. When is the American Administration going to take notice and sign the Kyoto Agreement to reduce carbon immissions? For many years America has been burying its head in the sand and now it is reaping the whirlwind. Do you think Americans know who to blame for this mess?

Guwapo
User ID: 0038914 Sep 26th 4:13 AM
SMM - I'm sure there are many rich and powerful people who think that by being charitable they are buying an advance ticket to heaven on the cheap.

Do Mormons buy their ticket to heaven whilst they are still alive? Who do they pay it to? How does it work?

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Sep 26th 5:20 AM
One of my ex Technical Directors (and a friend) was a Mormon 'Bishop' and I've had lots of dealings with them thro' their amassed genealoical research records - so correct answers only please SSM - don't guess or bluff.... !

Sir Edmund KT
User ID: 1516194 Sep 26th 7:43 AM
Dear SelmerSaxMan - What gave you the idea that I far been knighted? Barons are not knighted, it is a peerage, and is inherited.

WW2
User ID: 0882114 Sep 26th 2:56 PM
Those who want to force the Kyoto Protocol on the USA assume that the USA has done nothing to reduce pollutants. They obviously have not even taken a glance at the reality.

Here in California, the Air Quality Management District (AQMD) and the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) have some of the most stringent anti-pollution standards in the WORLD!

Any new car sold in California, and in most of the USA, only puts out about 1/20 the pollution of automobiles built prior to 1972. In fact, the modern pollution controlled automobile in the USA pollutes more just sitting and NOT RUNNING than its engine pollutes while running. This non-engine combustion related pollution is caused by the outgassing of plastics, oils, and fuel in the vehicle.

Factories have stringent pollution controls regulated by the US government. All in all, the USA pollution level is considerably less than it was 40 years ago, even though we have more industry and automobiles. In most cases, the USA's anti-pollution laws EXCEED the Kyoto protocol. Do you really want us to lower our standards?

Ozone depletion is primarily caused by Chlorofluorocarbons used in air-conditioners. New (last 15 years or so) USA regulations have banned this substance for use in Air-Conditioners. As a result, more expensive air-conditions have been built using more expensive gases. This is a price that American consumers willingly pay for cleaner air. Additionally, gas recovery systems are now mandatory for any air-conditioner service so that the used gases do not dump into the atmosphere.

Finally, the cars running out of gas in the evacuation from Texas were assumed to be “gas-guzzlers”. Again, this is a false assumption. Try this experiment; Fill your gas tank at the nearest fuel station. Then park you car at home, start your engine and let it idle for 14 hours while running the air-conditioner (if so equipped). Finally, go back to the fuel station and fill your tank again. Now calculate your gas mileage. For example:

Assume that your tank has a capacity of 16 gallons. Your engine at idle consumes 2 gallons of gasoline per hour. The nearest fuel station is 2 miles from your house. The experiment would go as follows:

1. Tank filled at station.
2. Car driven home (2.0 miles)
3. Car left to idle in driveway.
4. Eight hours into the experiment the fuel runs out. Push/tow car to fuel station and refill. Add 16 gallons to the fuel used register.
5. Car driven home (2.0 miles)
6. Car left to idle in driveway for an additional six hours to get the total of 14 hours.
7. Car driven to fuel station (2.0 miles)
8. Fuel tank topped off with 12 gallons of fuel; 12 gallons added to the fuel used register.
9. Mileage calculated at 6.0 miles/28 gallons = 0.21 Miles per gallon.
10. Now assume that this was the actual 100-mile evacuation from hurricane Rita and that you made the entire distance using the same 28 gallons of fuel. This would give you a fuel economy of 3.57 miles per gallon.

Finally, assume that you have a super efficient gasoline automobile that is rated for 50 miles per gallon on the highway and it burns only 1 gallon per hour at idle. These cars typically have 12-gallon tanks, so the experiment would go like this:

1. Tank filled at station.
2. Car driven home (2.0 miles)
3. Car left to idle in driveway.
4. Twelve hours into the experiment the fuel runs out. Push/tow car to fuel station and refill. Add 12 gallons to the fuel used register.
5. Car driven home (2.0 miles)
6. Car left to idle in driveway for an additional two hours to get the total of 14 hours.
7. Car driven to fuel station (2.0 miles)
8. Fuel tank topped of with 2 gallons of fuel, 2 gallons added to the fuel used register.
9. Mileage calculated at 6.0 miles/14 gallons = 0.43 Miles per gallon.
10. Now assume that this was the actual 100-mile evacuation from hurricane Rita and that you made the entire distance using the same 14 gallons of fuel. This would give you a fuel economy of 7.14 miles per gallon.

Your only hope would have been to have a hybrid gasoline/electric engine that shut off when the vehicle was stopped. Also, you would have to turn off the air-conditioner. In the sun-drenched evacuation route with 90-degree temperatures the interior of the car would quickly heat to 110 degrees plus even with the windows open. Hope you brought plenty of water!

Basically, this evacuation of 2.7 million people in only three days is the first evacuation of a modern city in such short order. All in all it went fairly well. Theories were proven wrong and will need to be modified. Fortunately, many lives were probably saved by the evacuation; even though some were lost because of the evacuation. Disaster preparation for individuals, municipalities, and countries has been severely tested during the last month. As tragic as these disasters are, the larger tragedy will be if we learn nothing, or do nothing with the lessons taught.

Are you ready to live for two or three weeks without ANY services (food, water, sewer, fuel, or electricity)? If not, you will be found on the list of victims of the next disaster to hit your area. If so, you have a much better chance of survival. There are no guarantees!

Wazoo
User ID: 9809413 Sep 26th 5:04 PM
I've been 'lurking' in your excellent forum since I first fell in love with the c-mel sax - maybe 5 or 6 months now. I may have read every word in every one of the threads here, only reading these messages last because I didn't think it would further enlighten me as a c-mel player.

I apologise for making this my first post, and promise to try to add something of value to the other topics in the very near future.

Consider this: While the Americans may be 5% of the world's population, and they may consume 30% of the world's resources, don't they generate about 70% of the world's wealth?

Will the wonder-drug that saves your Mother's life likely come from Finland (no offence to the Finns, just trying to make a point of logic)?

Will the Fr*nch Army save you from marauding foriegn invaders any time soon?

Will the German people grab their credit cards, fire up their web browsers, and send you almost a billion USD - overnight - when your town is smashed by a tsunami?

You know how to discern the 'winners' and 'losers'? Hint: The losers are the ones pointing at the winners and whining "Thats not fair!"

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Sep 26th 7:18 PM
Wade.

WW2
User ID: 0882114 Sep 26th 8:08 PM
Yes Lewis?

Wazoo, welcome to the forum. Too bad your first post was sticking your head into the hornet's nest, so to speak.

It looks like this has turned in to a "We versus Them" type of argument. These "the USA is the great SATAN" feelings is what has gotten us down the path of 9/11 (and prior terrorist attacks), Afghanistan, Iraq, London, Madrid, and too many others to name. We are really one world and each of us needs to do our part to bring peace and understanding to the forefront.

I myself have thrown gasoline on this fire. More important, blaming anyone, either them, or us is fruitless. We need to attack the real cause of the problems. We will never resolve this argument.

So, in the interest of peace, and to get us back to what really matters, to wit SAXOPHONES, I vote that we stop this argument and agree to disagree.

Perhaps I should open another board call "Political Arguments and Other Nonsense" so that "Good Natured Banter" can get back to being "Good Natured"!

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Sep 26th 8:12 PM
Wade.
Thanks for the laugh......propaganda from someone really on the back foot.
Sadly your initial premise, on which you base everything, is incorrect. ANTI-POLUTION LAWS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FUEL CONSUMPTION...in fact it can be counter productive.
I was an engine development engineer in Europe at the time the Californian Emission rules were enforced. In order to sell cars in America we had to adhere to your standards controlling Carbon Monoxide (directly proportional to air/fuel ratio) and Unburnt Hydrocarbons which are a measure of burn efficiency......this, despite the fact that our cars, with their typically smaller engines would provide better MPG with the choke (strangler) half out!
The Emission laws were introduced simply because of the photochemical conditions prevailing in Los Angeles producing smog.
In order to reduce unburnt HC on vehicle over-run we had to install a throttle by-pass which PROVIDED (ie. wasted,) FUEL on the over-run...that's what I call efficiency! To make matters even worse, the ignition timing was retarded under these conditions to re-instate the now non existent engine braking; resulting in further inefficiency.

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Sep 26th 8:14 PM
Continued due to finger trouble (it is 2am here)

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Sep 26th 8:36 PM
Attempt No. 3!
As a further example of American hypocracy was the outcry from the rich & powerful in America when Enzo Ferarri announced that he was abandoning the American market as the cost of providing emission control exceeded his profits in America.(It has been said that, because of the costs, it would have been cheaper to move Loss Angeles). Suddenly, faced with this, the Government back tracked & announced that limited numbers of specialist cars would be allowed in without emission control.....no surprise then that the number was the same as Ferarri's export to America in previous years.
Another factor Wade is that your vast engined 4x4s are considered to be "trucks" & the stringent Anti Pollution limits are relaxed in America in the case of "trucks"
In terms of efficiency you are light years behind Europe.....I read that your latest "sports car" (an oxymoron if ever there was one) the new Ford Mustang develops 300 HP from its vast & inefficient 4.6 litre engine....the BMW of equivalent engine size develops nearly 500 HP.
Whereas I am the first to see that neither brakes nor sophisticated suspension are required at 55 MPH on straight roads..it still seems an anachronism that your so called Sports Car has the same "cart springing & live rear axle" as the old Model T Ford...albeit with a Panhard rod (last seen in Europe decades ago)...wow!
It was ammusing to read in a road test of this latest Mustang that it ran out of brakes by turn 6 on your excellent Laguna Sega circuit.
There is much more to a sports car than muscling a huge engine into an anti deluvian chassis.....that simply provides a series of drag races between corners.
Please wade, do not talk to us about fuel efficiency....there, I am feeling better now :-))

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Sep 26th 8:46 PM
Wade.
I so agree with you about these ghastly, non saxophonic issues....there is so little that we can do about them other than to raise each other's blood pressure.
In fact, these are my first posts for some time....being put off by by both these inappropriate topics and being, with Roger, insulted by a moron......strange to me that some on this board regard that as fun...Hey Ho.

Alan (UK)
User ID: 8200143 Sep 26th 9:29 PM
Wade - as it's 3 a.m. and I've been woken by heavy rain, just a few bleary thoughts....

There you go again bringing religion into it ( quote " "the USA is the great SATAN" )... I haven't ever said that, and never will. Strange that religion does seem to breed aspects of survivalism, my old Mormon boss had a sideline selling 'packaged disaster foods' for nuclear shelters. He used to joke that they'd eventually go out of date so he'd be selling replacements as well - and that in the event of actual use, who'd be left to complain, or complain to.... ? He used to say "no room for religious sentiments in business, lad, I leave all that at home..."

Wazoo - welcome too. Your quote "Americans .....don't they generate about 70% of the world's wealth? " Guess you must be from the good old USA then ? So without you guys, we'd all be under-developed backwaters ? I think not ! Don't forget that you all came from our poor underdeveloped third world countries (like your German scientists). Without our blood - and in the current quagmire of Iraq and Afghanistan that is frighteningly accurate - you'd all still be a nation living in tents and trading furs, with your 4x4 ponies.

Wade - sure looked like a freeway full of big gas-guzzlers and trucks to me, the way they went offroad at one stage - but then I forgot you guys do regard that size as 'normal', and sensible cars as 'compacts'. Must have something to do with portion sizes at KFC I guess.... Sure were some BIG people being rescued in New Orleans.

I think there will always be this difference between the way the US perceives itself, and the way others (including allies like us) frequently see you. I do honestly feel, in the depths of my heart, that if the world ever comes to a premature end, either the USA or Israel will be deep in the mess somewhere, shaking that 'big stick' at other nations. For all the good that I acknowledge you do, as a country, you also have great potential for destruction, self or otherwise....

I'll now go and put on my "THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH" sandwich boards, and go for a quiet stroll in the lovely, purifying (not quite acid yet) rain.....

It's only words...:-))

SelmerSaxMan
User ID: 8645673 Sep 27th 1:44 AM
guwapo, I will get back on that mormonism deal later - it is too late to post such a post right now.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 9865253 Sep 27th 4:43 AM
Gosh... Is that a threat?......I am agog with apathy.....consumed with indifference: as, I suspect, are most others here. Perhaps the pause will give you the opportunity to check your grammar.

Guwapo
User ID: 0038914 Sep 27th 7:40 AM
Looks like most of us have been looking at the problem of Global Warming from a national perspective: what's good for my country is probably not good for yours; so who cares. That kinda idea. A very narrow view of this problem, but Global Warming concerns us all, it is not just a problem for America, or Europe or Japan; it's a problem for the whole Earth of which we are all citizens. If we were visitors from outer space we would see that the Earth is a very insignificant dot, but Earth is Home and we should take care of it if not for us for future generations. We should all work together to save the Earth.

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Sep 27th 8:09 AM
Alan.
Glad that you have no acid rain....ironically perhaps, it is the sulphur dioxide from our power stations, forming sulphurous acid, which results in acid rain in Sweden... This gives the lie to electric cars being environmentally friendly...where does the motive power come from?....yes, that's right...the inefficient, fossil fuelled, power stations....hey ho...no justice.
I do wish that all the yoghart weavers & tree huggers would do just a little bit of research before lecturing us on "Saving the Planet".

Captain Muggles
User ID: 2309834 Sep 27th 1:54 PM
The World........Sigh!!!! I guess we are all doomed! I guess its time to start playing music with all the stops pulled out. (Although, I always do that anyway)!

WW2
User ID: 0882114 Sep 27th 5:27 PM
Alan (UK) I do apologize; I did not intend to attribute the "USA is the Great SATAN!" statement to you. It is the rallying cry of Osama bin Laden, and Jihadist across the world that wish to destroy western civilization, not just the USA. In no way did I mean to imply that this came from, or included you.

Lewis, you are quite correct. The anti-pollution controls on modern American automobiles are designed to fight photochemical smog. Any additional benefit is serendipity. Unfortunately, American governments (states and federal) usually make bad laws. For example, the throttle device you mentioned. I can’t tell you how many times my VW bug backfired because of that thing! It would have been far better if the law simply stated the acceptable levels of pollutants allowed at idle and at running load, and left the “how” to the engineers. I am sure that the engineers could have come up with much better engines with greater efficiency and lower pollution levels than the legislated contraptions under my hood. My point is that it did not matter that the cars in the 100-mile long traffic jam were highly efficient or not. When a vehicle is not moving but the engine is running it is getting ZERO miles per gallon, basically just wasting fuel and polluting in the process.

As for the engineering level of American automobiles, I can only say that foreign competition has had, and will continue to have, a positive effect on the American automobiles. For example, American automobiles used to be designed to basically fall apart after 100,000 miles. Today, due to the superior engineering of European and Japanese automobiles, American automobiles easily last 200,000 miles (with proper maintenance).

Also, true sports cars had better be able to handle the twisties or they will be out run on any road course in the world. Straight-line acceleration is only good for drag races unless you can hit the brakes and make the turns at a decent speed. I have been in road-rallies where high-powered Chevrolet Novas were up against VW Bugs. The Novas did not do well since the course had lots of turns. Their acceleration helped in the straight portions of the course, but they had to crawl around the corners. The Bugs simply accelerated as best they could and carried their speed through the corners and around the Novas. And the Bugs were famous for their POOR cornering performance!

Laura
User ID: 0721754 Sep 27th 7:12 PM
Wade- I thought BUGS were famous for their sticking heaters!

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

Sir Edmund KT User ID: 1516194	Sep 23rd 9:06 AM So yet another hurricane is on its way, this time hurricane Rita. People are heeding the warnings and moving away from the areas at risk. I've seen reported on the news 100 mile road jams; so many more vehicles pumping out greenhouse gases to pollute the atmosphere and contribute to global warming. When is the American Administration going to take notice and sign the Kyoto Agreement to reduce carbon immissions? For many years America has been burying its head in the sand and now it is reaping the whirlwind. Do you think Americans know who to blame for this mess?
Guwapo User ID: 0038914	Sep 26th 4:13 AM SMM - I'm sure there are many rich and powerful people who think that by being charitable they are buying an advance ticket to heaven on the cheap. Do Mormons buy their ticket to heaven whilst they are still alive? Who do they pay it to? How does it work?
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Sep 26th 5:20 AM One of my ex Technical Directors (and a friend) was a Mormon 'Bishop' and I've had lots of dealings with them thro' their amassed genealoical research records - so correct answers only please SSM - don't guess or bluff.... !
Sir Edmund KT User ID: 1516194	Sep 26th 7:43 AM Dear SelmerSaxMan - What gave you the idea that I far been knighted? Barons are not knighted, it is a peerage, and is inherited.
WW2 User ID: 0882114	Sep 26th 2:56 PM Those who want to force the Kyoto Protocol on the USA assume that the USA has done nothing to reduce pollutants. They obviously have not even taken a glance at the reality. Here in California, the Air Quality Management District (AQMD) and the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) have some of the most stringent anti-pollution standards in the WORLD! Any new car sold in California, and in most of the USA, only puts out about 1/20 the pollution of automobiles built prior to 1972. In fact, the modern pollution controlled automobile in the USA pollutes more just sitting and NOT RUNNING than its engine pollutes while running. This non-engine combustion related pollution is caused by the outgassing of plastics, oils, and fuel in the vehicle. Factories have stringent pollution controls regulated by the US government. All in all, the USA pollution level is considerably less than it was 40 years ago, even though we have more industry and automobiles. In most cases, the USA's anti-pollution laws EXCEED the Kyoto protocol. Do you really want us to lower our standards? Ozone depletion is primarily caused by Chlorofluorocarbons used in air-conditioners. New (last 15 years or so) USA regulations have banned this substance for use in Air-Conditioners. As a result, more expensive air-conditions have been built using more expensive gases. This is a price that American consumers willingly pay for cleaner air. Additionally, gas recovery systems are now mandatory for any air-conditioner service so that the used gases do not dump into the atmosphere. Finally, the cars running out of gas in the evacuation from Texas were assumed to be “gas-guzzlers”. Again, this is a false assumption. Try this experiment; Fill your gas tank at the nearest fuel station. Then park you car at home, start your engine and let it idle for 14 hours while running the air-conditioner (if so equipped). Finally, go back to the fuel station and fill your tank again. Now calculate your gas mileage. For example: Assume that your tank has a capacity of 16 gallons. Your engine at idle consumes 2 gallons of gasoline per hour. The nearest fuel station is 2 miles from your house. The experiment would go as follows: 1. Tank filled at station. 2. Car driven home (2.0 miles) 3. Car left to idle in driveway. 4. Eight hours into the experiment the fuel runs out. Push/tow car to fuel station and refill. Add 16 gallons to the fuel used register. 5. Car driven home (2.0 miles) 6. Car left to idle in driveway for an additional six hours to get the total of 14 hours. 7. Car driven to fuel station (2.0 miles) 8. Fuel tank topped off with 12 gallons of fuel; 12 gallons added to the fuel used register. 9. Mileage calculated at 6.0 miles/28 gallons = 0.21 Miles per gallon. 10. Now assume that this was the actual 100-mile evacuation from hurricane Rita and that you made the entire distance using the same 28 gallons of fuel. This would give you a fuel economy of 3.57 miles per gallon. Finally, assume that you have a super efficient gasoline automobile that is rated for 50 miles per gallon on the highway and it burns only 1 gallon per hour at idle. These cars typically have 12-gallon tanks, so the experiment would go like this: 1. Tank filled at station. 2. Car driven home (2.0 miles) 3. Car left to idle in driveway. 4. Twelve hours into the experiment the fuel runs out. Push/tow car to fuel station and refill. Add 12 gallons to the fuel used register. 5. Car driven home (2.0 miles) 6. Car left to idle in driveway for an additional two hours to get the total of 14 hours. 7. Car driven to fuel station (2.0 miles) 8. Fuel tank topped of with 2 gallons of fuel, 2 gallons added to the fuel used register. 9. Mileage calculated at 6.0 miles/14 gallons = 0.43 Miles per gallon. 10. Now assume that this was the actual 100-mile evacuation from hurricane Rita and that you made the entire distance using the same 14 gallons of fuel. This would give you a fuel economy of 7.14 miles per gallon. Your only hope would have been to have a hybrid gasoline/electric engine that shut off when the vehicle was stopped. Also, you would have to turn off the air-conditioner. In the sun-drenched evacuation route with 90-degree temperatures the interior of the car would quickly heat to 110 degrees plus even with the windows open. Hope you brought plenty of water! Basically, this evacuation of 2.7 million people in only three days is the first evacuation of a modern city in such short order. All in all it went fairly well. Theories were proven wrong and will need to be modified. Fortunately, many lives were probably saved by the evacuation; even though some were lost because of the evacuation. Disaster preparation for individuals, municipalities, and countries has been severely tested during the last month. As tragic as these disasters are, the larger tragedy will be if we learn nothing, or do nothing with the lessons taught. Are you ready to live for two or three weeks without ANY services (food, water, sewer, fuel, or electricity)? If not, you will be found on the list of victims of the next disaster to hit your area. If so, you have a much better chance of survival. There are no guarantees!
Wazoo User ID: 9809413	Sep 26th 5:04 PM I've been 'lurking' in your excellent forum since I first fell in love with the c-mel sax - maybe 5 or 6 months now. I may have read every word in every one of the threads here, only reading these messages last because I didn't think it would further enlighten me as a c-mel player. I apologise for making this my first post, and promise to try to add something of value to the other topics in the very near future. Consider this: While the Americans may be 5% of the world's population, and they may consume 30% of the world's resources, don't they generate about 70% of the world's wealth? Will the wonder-drug that saves your Mother's life likely come from Finland (no offence to the Finns, just trying to make a point of logic)? Will the Fr*nch Army save you from marauding foriegn invaders any time soon? Will the German people grab their credit cards, fire up their web browsers, and send you almost a billion USD - overnight - when your town is smashed by a tsunami? You know how to discern the 'winners' and 'losers'? Hint: The losers are the ones pointing at the winners and whining "Thats not fair!"
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Sep 26th 7:18 PM Wade.
WW2 User ID: 0882114	Sep 26th 8:08 PM Yes Lewis? Wazoo, welcome to the forum. Too bad your first post was sticking your head into the hornet's nest, so to speak. It looks like this has turned in to a "We versus Them" type of argument. These "the USA is the great SATAN" feelings is what has gotten us down the path of 9/11 (and prior terrorist attacks), Afghanistan, Iraq, London, Madrid, and too many others to name. We are really one world and each of us needs to do our part to bring peace and understanding to the forefront. I myself have thrown gasoline on this fire. More important, blaming anyone, either them, or us is fruitless. We need to attack the real cause of the problems. We will never resolve this argument. So, in the interest of peace, and to get us back to what really matters, to wit SAXOPHONES, I vote that we stop this argument and agree to disagree. Perhaps I should open another board call "Political Arguments and Other Nonsense" so that "Good Natured Banter" can get back to being "Good Natured"!
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Sep 26th 8:12 PM Wade. Thanks for the laugh......propaganda from someone really on the back foot. Sadly your initial premise, on which you base everything, is incorrect. ANTI-POLUTION LAWS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FUEL CONSUMPTION...in fact it can be counter productive. I was an engine development engineer in Europe at the time the Californian Emission rules were enforced. In order to sell cars in America we had to adhere to your standards controlling Carbon Monoxide (directly proportional to air/fuel ratio) and Unburnt Hydrocarbons which are a measure of burn efficiency......this, despite the fact that our cars, with their typically smaller engines would provide better MPG with the choke (strangler) half out! The Emission laws were introduced simply because of the photochemical conditions prevailing in Los Angeles producing smog. In order to reduce unburnt HC on vehicle over-run we had to install a throttle by-pass which PROVIDED (ie. wasted,) FUEL on the over-run...that's what I call efficiency! To make matters even worse, the ignition timing was retarded under these conditions to re-instate the now non existent engine braking; resulting in further inefficiency.
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Sep 26th 8:14 PM Continued due to finger trouble (it is 2am here)
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Sep 26th 8:36 PM Attempt No. 3! As a further example of American hypocracy was the outcry from the rich & powerful in America when Enzo Ferarri announced that he was abandoning the American market as the cost of providing emission control exceeded his profits in America.(It has been said that, because of the costs, it would have been cheaper to move Loss Angeles). Suddenly, faced with this, the Government back tracked & announced that limited numbers of specialist cars would be allowed in without emission control.....no surprise then that the number was the same as Ferarri's export to America in previous years. Another factor Wade is that your vast engined 4x4s are considered to be "trucks" & the stringent Anti Pollution limits are relaxed in America in the case of "trucks" In terms of efficiency you are light years behind Europe.....I read that your latest "sports car" (an oxymoron if ever there was one) the new Ford Mustang develops 300 HP from its vast & inefficient 4.6 litre engine....the BMW of equivalent engine size develops nearly 500 HP. Whereas I am the first to see that neither brakes nor sophisticated suspension are required at 55 MPH on straight roads..it still seems an anachronism that your so called Sports Car has the same "cart springing & live rear axle" as the old Model T Ford...albeit with a Panhard rod (last seen in Europe decades ago)...wow! It was ammusing to read in a road test of this latest Mustang that it ran out of brakes by turn 6 on your excellent Laguna Sega circuit. There is much more to a sports car than muscling a huge engine into an anti deluvian chassis.....that simply provides a series of drag races between corners. Please wade, do not talk to us about fuel efficiency....there, I am feeling better now :-))
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Sep 26th 8:46 PM Wade. I so agree with you about these ghastly, non saxophonic issues....there is so little that we can do about them other than to raise each other's blood pressure. In fact, these are my first posts for some time....being put off by by both these inappropriate topics and being, with Roger, insulted by a moron......strange to me that some on this board regard that as fun...Hey Ho.
Alan (UK) User ID: 8200143	Sep 26th 9:29 PM Wade - as it's 3 a.m. and I've been woken by heavy rain, just a few bleary thoughts.... There you go again bringing religion into it ( quote " "the USA is the great SATAN" )... I haven't ever said that, and never will. Strange that religion does seem to breed aspects of survivalism, my old Mormon boss had a sideline selling 'packaged disaster foods' for nuclear shelters. He used to joke that they'd eventually go out of date so he'd be selling replacements as well - and that in the event of actual use, who'd be left to complain, or complain to.... ? He used to say "no room for religious sentiments in business, lad, I leave all that at home..." Wazoo - welcome too. Your quote "Americans .....don't they generate about 70% of the world's wealth? " Guess you must be from the good old USA then ? So without you guys, we'd all be under-developed backwaters ? I think not ! Don't forget that you all came from our poor underdeveloped third world countries (like your German scientists). Without our blood - and in the current quagmire of Iraq and Afghanistan that is frighteningly accurate - you'd all still be a nation living in tents and trading furs, with your 4x4 ponies. Wade - sure looked like a freeway full of big gas-guzzlers and trucks to me, the way they went offroad at one stage - but then I forgot you guys do regard that size as 'normal', and sensible cars as 'compacts'. Must have something to do with portion sizes at KFC I guess.... Sure were some BIG people being rescued in New Orleans. I think there will always be this difference between the way the US perceives itself, and the way others (including allies like us) frequently see you. I do honestly feel, in the depths of my heart, that if the world ever comes to a premature end, either the USA or Israel will be deep in the mess somewhere, shaking that 'big stick' at other nations. For all the good that I acknowledge you do, as a country, you also have great potential for destruction, self or otherwise.... I'll now go and put on my "THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH" sandwich boards, and go for a quiet stroll in the lovely, purifying (not quite acid yet) rain..... It's only words...:-))
SelmerSaxMan User ID: 8645673	Sep 27th 1:44 AM guwapo, I will get back on that mormonism deal later - it is too late to post such a post right now.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 9865253	Sep 27th 4:43 AM Gosh... Is that a threat?......I am agog with apathy.....consumed with indifference: as, I suspect, are most others here. Perhaps the pause will give you the opportunity to check your grammar.
Guwapo User ID: 0038914	Sep 27th 7:40 AM Looks like most of us have been looking at the problem of Global Warming from a national perspective: what's good for my country is probably not good for yours; so who cares. That kinda idea. A very narrow view of this problem, but Global Warming concerns us all, it is not just a problem for America, or Europe or Japan; it's a problem for the whole Earth of which we are all citizens. If we were visitors from outer space we would see that the Earth is a very insignificant dot, but Earth is Home and we should take care of it if not for us for future generations. We should all work together to save the Earth.
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Sep 27th 8:09 AM Alan. Glad that you have no acid rain....ironically perhaps, it is the sulphur dioxide from our power stations, forming sulphurous acid, which results in acid rain in Sweden... This gives the lie to electric cars being environmentally friendly...where does the motive power come from?....yes, that's right...the inefficient, fossil fuelled, power stations....hey ho...no justice. I do wish that all the yoghart weavers & tree huggers would do just a little bit of research before lecturing us on "Saving the Planet".
Captain Muggles User ID: 2309834	Sep 27th 1:54 PM The World........Sigh!!!! I guess we are all doomed! I guess its time to start playing music with all the stops pulled out. (Although, I always do that anyway)!
WW2 User ID: 0882114	Sep 27th 5:27 PM Alan (UK) I do apologize; I did not intend to attribute the "USA is the Great SATAN!" statement to you. It is the rallying cry of Osama bin Laden, and Jihadist across the world that wish to destroy western civilization, not just the USA. In no way did I mean to imply that this came from, or included you. Lewis, you are quite correct. The anti-pollution controls on modern American automobiles are designed to fight photochemical smog. Any additional benefit is serendipity. Unfortunately, American governments (states and federal) usually make bad laws. For example, the throttle device you mentioned. I can’t tell you how many times my VW bug backfired because of that thing! It would have been far better if the law simply stated the acceptable levels of pollutants allowed at idle and at running load, and left the “how” to the engineers. I am sure that the engineers could have come up with much better engines with greater efficiency and lower pollution levels than the legislated contraptions under my hood. My point is that it did not matter that the cars in the 100-mile long traffic jam were highly efficient or not. When a vehicle is not moving but the engine is running it is getting ZERO miles per gallon, basically just wasting fuel and polluting in the process. As for the engineering level of American automobiles, I can only say that foreign competition has had, and will continue to have, a positive effect on the American automobiles. For example, American automobiles used to be designed to basically fall apart after 100,000 miles. Today, due to the superior engineering of European and Japanese automobiles, American automobiles easily last 200,000 miles (with proper maintenance). Also, true sports cars had better be able to handle the twisties or they will be out run on any road course in the world. Straight-line acceleration is only good for drag races unless you can hit the brakes and make the turns at a decent speed. I have been in road-rallies where high-powered Chevrolet Novas were up against VW Bugs. The Novas did not do well since the course had lots of turns. Their acceleration helped in the straight portions of the course, but they had to crawl around the corners. The Bugs simply accelerated as best they could and carried their speed through the corners and around the Novas. And the Bugs were famous for their POOR cornering performance!
Laura User ID: 0721754	Sep 27th 7:12 PM Wade- I thought BUGS were famous for their sticking heaters!