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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Good Natured Banter / Copyright police

Back 20 Messages

Jim B
User ID: 1913054 Nov 22nd 8:51 AM
Recently the copyright police (ASCAP) came to our town. A local small cafe had a 4 piece band playing out of fake books. ASCAP said that the owner was to pay to ASCAP $5 for every table in the cafe. What happened? The owner cancelled live music and went to recorded music. So much for ASCAP keeping live music "alive".This is the 2nd time I have heard about ASCAP. The first time someone came into a music store and begged the owner for a fake book. When the owner finally said "ok ok already!" the buyer said "gottcha".

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 23rd 2:20 PM
Yes, and 'fretless' means that some effort has to go into memorising where the notes are - almost as good as a double bass player.

As a matter of interest, when improvising I like to follow the bass lines - as a more solid indication of chord progressions. In fact, when a bass player once got it wrong, I followed him. He was shocked, to say the least, that anyone was really listening to him. Sad...

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Nov 23rd 3:07 PM
Ask any bass player if he can play in the dark & the answer is invariably yes.......why then are they lacking the confidence to play fretless.
A 10 hole harmonica has numbers stamped at the top of the side plates, the bit in your mouth....why?...who can see them?

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 23rd 3:56 PM
I can only think it's for when you're learning ? You can first hear the note (by blocking off the rest) you're then going to find 'blind' with the harp in your mouth ?

Lewis Pelham.
User ID: 9865253 Nov 23rd 4:11 PM
Yes, it is blind & a sort of "positional practice" in that it is quite easy to play a two octave scale removing the harp to arms length between each note & accurately hitting the next note exactly....ie. with no "bleed" from the reeds on either side of the target note.

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 23rd 4:24 PM
Using a long straw ?
:-))

CP2
User ID: 9433023 Nov 23rd 4:32 PM
What happened to the copyright police?

cmelodysax-uk
User ID: 8200143 Nov 23rd 7:08 PM
They vanished up their own ASCAP's.....

CP2
User ID: 9433023 Nov 23rd 11:20 PM
Ah.....They vanished up their own ASCAP's..... Using a long straw ?

jazzbug1
User ID: 0735934 Oct 31st 8:55 AM
ASCAP has been busy lately. They came to several very small clubs in my area and assessed them for whatever music they have, which is very little. They closed down a very nice little restaurant with an assessment of $50,000 for "current and past due." ASCAP was formed so songwriters could receive royalties on profits made from their tunes, and I can understand that, but when you look at old jazz standards from the 20s--40s, the writers are deceased and then it is about $$ going to publishers who have renewed the copyright, not the composer or his family. A friend of mine told them they should pay clubs for playing their older songs and keeping them alive in the popular memory, as if it weren't for the older performers, many tunes would never be heard. A comprimise must be made or I will play tunes that are Public Domain only when performing in a small concert venue. None of my jokes are copyrighted, so please select the ones you want to use to impress an audience (or to clear out an overcrowded concert).

HJ
User ID: 0283314 Mar 25th 1:49 PM
Re: the copyright police.... here are my thoughts.

Why do copyrights last longer than patents do?

I agree with copyright in principle; however,… while the owners of the rights should be compensated for the use of their property, there are unresolved issues:

If music could be readily replaced by ordering new parts, there should be no problem in playing from the original parts; however, much music has been out of print for so many years that replacements can not be found. It is therefore imperative that the original parts be protected from loss or damage. The only way to do that is to make copies. If the copyright owners want the original parts to be used, they should make replacements available.

For example, I have a special interest in the 76 Leeds/MCA arrangements by Glenn Osser and have acquired many of the original charts on ebay, but many no longer exist except as copies. Wanting to do "the right thing", I wrote to UMG (the successor company to Leeds/MCA) to see if they had any old stock that they might be able to sell to me. More than a year later they have not even bothered to reply either way. In view of that, as far as I am concerned, they have diminished their rights, but certainly the law would not agree with me. I continue to look for originals on the auction sites.

Abuses are now the norm. There is much chart “trading” going on, where "trading" = copying. In addition, people are openly selling copies on auction sites, advertising them as "long out of print", as if that invalidates copyright (it probably should). In a way, the "traders" are doing a public service by scanning and digitally preserving charts that would otherwise eventually crumble to dust from aging (as some of my older original music is starting to do) and cease to exist. Publishers must surely be including any perceived loss from the copyright violations into their selling price so that we all pay for it.

There is no point in having laws that are not strongly supported by society, can't be enforced, or would cause bigger problems if they were enforced; e.g., the shutdown of many community bands and much live music comes to mind.

It is intuitively obvious that changes are needed to create a copyright system that is simple, fair, and serves society.

Back 20 Messages

Jim B User ID: 1913054	Nov 22nd 8:51 AM Recently the copyright police (ASCAP) came to our town. A local small cafe had a 4 piece band playing out of fake books. ASCAP said that the owner was to pay to ASCAP $5 for every table in the cafe. What happened? The owner cancelled live music and went to recorded music. So much for ASCAP keeping live music "alive".This is the 2nd time I have heard about ASCAP. The first time someone came into a music store and begged the owner for a fake book. When the owner finally said "ok ok already!" the buyer said "gottcha".
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 23rd 2:20 PM Yes, and 'fretless' means that some effort has to go into memorising where the notes are - almost as good as a double bass player. As a matter of interest, when improvising I like to follow the bass lines - as a more solid indication of chord progressions. In fact, when a bass player once got it wrong, I followed him. He was shocked, to say the least, that anyone was really listening to him. Sad...
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Nov 23rd 3:07 PM Ask any bass player if he can play in the dark & the answer is invariably yes.......why then are they lacking the confidence to play fretless. A 10 hole harmonica has numbers stamped at the top of the side plates, the bit in your mouth....why?...who can see them?
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 23rd 3:56 PM I can only think it's for when you're learning ? You can first hear the note (by blocking off the rest) you're then going to find 'blind' with the harp in your mouth ?
Lewis Pelham. User ID: 9865253	Nov 23rd 4:11 PM Yes, it is blind & a sort of "positional practice" in that it is quite easy to play a two octave scale removing the harp to arms length between each note & accurately hitting the next note exactly....ie. with no "bleed" from the reeds on either side of the target note.
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 23rd 4:24 PM Using a long straw ? :-))
CP2 User ID: 9433023	Nov 23rd 4:32 PM What happened to the copyright police?
cmelodysax-uk User ID: 8200143	Nov 23rd 7:08 PM They vanished up their own ASCAP's.....
CP2 User ID: 9433023	Nov 23rd 11:20 PM Ah.....They vanished up their own ASCAP's..... Using a long straw ?
jazzbug1 User ID: 0735934	Oct 31st 8:55 AM ASCAP has been busy lately. They came to several very small clubs in my area and assessed them for whatever music they have, which is very little. They closed down a very nice little restaurant with an assessment of $50,000 for "current and past due." ASCAP was formed so songwriters could receive royalties on profits made from their tunes, and I can understand that, but when you look at old jazz standards from the 20s--40s, the writers are deceased and then it is about $$ going to publishers who have renewed the copyright, not the composer or his family. A friend of mine told them they should pay clubs for playing their older songs and keeping them alive in the popular memory, as if it weren't for the older performers, many tunes would never be heard. A comprimise must be made or I will play tunes that are Public Domain only when performing in a small concert venue. None of my jokes are copyrighted, so please select the ones you want to use to impress an audience (or to clear out an overcrowded concert).
HJ User ID: 0283314	Mar 25th 1:49 PM Re: the copyright police.... here are my thoughts. Why do copyrights last longer than patents do? I agree with copyright in principle; however,… while the owners of the rights should be compensated for the use of their property, there are unresolved issues: If music could be readily replaced by ordering new parts, there should be no problem in playing from the original parts; however, much music has been out of print for so many years that replacements can not be found. It is therefore imperative that the original parts be protected from loss or damage. The only way to do that is to make copies. If the copyright owners want the original parts to be used, they should make replacements available. For example, I have a special interest in the 76 Leeds/MCA arrangements by Glenn Osser and have acquired many of the original charts on ebay, but many no longer exist except as copies. Wanting to do "the right thing", I wrote to UMG (the successor company to Leeds/MCA) to see if they had any old stock that they might be able to sell to me. More than a year later they have not even bothered to reply either way. In view of that, as far as I am concerned, they have diminished their rights, but certainly the law would not agree with me. I continue to look for originals on the auction sites. Abuses are now the norm. There is much chart “trading” going on, where "trading" = copying. In addition, people are openly selling copies on auction sites, advertising them as "long out of print", as if that invalidates copyright (it probably should). In a way, the "traders" are doing a public service by scanning and digitally preserving charts that would otherwise eventually crumble to dust from aging (as some of my older original music is starting to do) and cease to exist. Publishers must surely be including any perceived loss from the copyright violations into their selling price so that we all pay for it. There is no point in having laws that are not strongly supported by society, can't be enforced, or would cause bigger problems if they were enforced; e.g., the shutdown of many community bands and much live music comes to mind. It is intuitively obvious that changes are needed to create a copyright system that is simple, fair, and serves society.