C Melody Saxophone Forum

Swirve.com Links: Swirve.com Free Email Games Fantasy Sports E-Cards Movies Horoscopes Freebies Web Search

NOTICE: Beginning July 10th, 2008, this message board service will no longer be active or available for use.

C Melody Saxophone Forum / Good Natured Banter / If Abraham Lincoln were alive today...

Next 20 Messages

WW2
User ID: 0882114 May 3rd 12:05 PM
If President Abraham Lincoln went to the site of the World Trade Center attacks today, what might he say? The following is a modification of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. The changes are minimal, updated mostly to reflect our modern world rather than the world of 1863. Yet the thoughts are so timely… Ladies and Gentlemen, The President of the United States of America, Abraham Lincoln:

Eleven score and 10 years ago, our fathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation: conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great war against terror . . .testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated . . . can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war.

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate . . .we cannot consecrate . . . we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men and women, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.

It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work, which they who fought here have thus far so nobly, advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us . . .that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion . . . that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain . . . that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom . . . and that government of the people . . .by the people . . .for the people . . . shall not perish from the earth.

WW2
User ID: 0882114 May 3rd 12:22 PM
And so, the calendar changes, but the struggle for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness continues against those that would oppress us.

Although these thoughts are from American history, they apply equally to the entire Western World of today. For there shall always be oppressors that must be resisted. Whether that is a struggle against foreign attackers, or a struggle against our own governments, we must take courage and stand up for what is right.

This is as true today as it was in 1776 in the United States of America. It is as true today as it was during the French Revolution in 1789. It is as true today as it was at the signing of the Magna Carta (aka Magna Charta) in 1215. It is as true today as it was during the Great World War (WWI) and during the Second World War (WWII, not WW2).

I do not have much influence over the world at large, but I do have a small amount of influence over my small corner of the world. And so, this year, the Temecula All-City Community Band will dedicate its performance to the brave men and women around the world who have gone in harm’s way to ensure Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness is available to all the peoples, and creatures, of this planet.

Laura
User ID: 0721754 May 10th 9:40 AM
Wade, very nicely put!!!!! I don't know if you listen to Mannheim Steamroller, but on the CD American Spirit, part of Lincoln's speech is used in a piece called Tin Type. Take a listen if you get a chance :-)

Jim B
User ID: 9092003 May 10th 12:42 PM
Wade's comment reminded me of an introduction Lawrence Welk made on TV of a tune on his program years ago. He was reading off the tele-prompter and he said." Here is a tune written during World War eye eye." About a month ago I visited the Lincoln Presidential Museum in Springfield Il.When Lincoln gave the address quoted, many at the time were disapointed that the speech was so short.

Jim B
User ID: 1913054 May 12th 8:49 AM
The Gettysburg address was given Nov 19, 1863. The principal speaker Edward Everett went on for two hours... no one remembers what Mr. Everett said. March 1864 Lincoln put Grant in charge of the armies;two months later the advance to Richand and Sherman's march to the sea. Here his another quote:
“Mr . Lincoln will go down as the man who could not read the sign of the times nor understand the circumstances and interests of his country; who could not calculate his own resources nor appreciate those of his enemy, who had no potential aptitude, who plunged his country into a great war without a plan, who failed without excuse, and fell without a friend.”

From the London Morning Star , article called "Crisis", dated October 5, 1864

Guwapo
User ID: 2233684 May 13th 6:13 AM
.....here are the title deeds of freedom which should lie in every cottage home

....... we must never cease to proclaim in fearless tones the great principles of freedom and the rights of man which are the joint inheritance of the English-speaking world and which through Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights, the Habeas Corpus, trial by jury, and the English common law
find their most famous expression in the American Declaration of Independence.

Winston Churchill

Fulton, Missouri.
5th March 1946.

Guy-UK
User ID: 2233684 May 13th 6:27 AM
What General Weygand called the Battle of France is over I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of pervert science. let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will say, '

"This was their Finest Hour'

Winston Churchill

jazzbug1
User ID: 1626994 Nov 22nd 10:48 AM
What a place for idiot John to put his spam. I sometimes think of all the unfinished lives who fell in wars: Another Beetoven, Einstein, or just a good dad or mom. Maybe its the dads and moms of the world who have to teach that violence is only a last resort and should always be avoided, but when facing a despot or terrorist, it must be used when all else fails. Too bad politics, power, and $$ get involved, so there are always wars of profit and power gain. Of course, the people who back these wars and their families are rarely in danger. Music and art are a good diversion from violent (usually male) behavior, so maybe we should send C Melodys to opponents on both sides, followed by pictures of happy children playing the saxophone.

ukebert
Moderator
User ID: 1300074 Nov 22nd 12:31 PM
Jophn's spam has been deleted. If it continues I will sadly be forced to close the thread.

Well said jb.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Nov 22nd 5:12 PM
I really cannot believe this thread.
The lovely world of saxophones has been hi jacked by unashamed nationalistic jingoism.
Under the banner of "patriotism" I would ask you to reflect that this is just one short step from Fascism.
Next to religious zealotism, patriotism & territory is the greatest excuse for war.
There is nothing more obscene than war..it is disgusting; even worse dressed up as glorious..the glorious fallen..oh dear oh dear.
War is the result of either failed, or hedonistic politicians.
No-one is sadder than I to see soldiers die in battle; let us not forget however that this is their job (apart from the enlisted); no-one forced them to join the forces. They do not do it for the "glory", there is no glory. They do it for the money; just like policemen or accounts clerks.
I worry about the future when I read such unadorned propaganda.
As an atheist I am proud not to belong to this club...barbarism shrouded in the cloak of "glory".
I have always had trouble separating religion from superstition in the same way that I find democracy another word for mob rule...now I no longer have this problem. Thank you, all you Nationalists, for convincing me that I am correct.
Before all you Rednecks scream at me, I would ask you to read this post again...& think, (not be led like sheep), about your words.

Cool Runnin' Man
User ID: 9725373 Nov 22nd 9:40 PM
Captain Bb: I wish I could have read this bit of spam in order to have drawn my own opinion of it. Why was it deleted? Was it obscene or offensive? Or did it just clash with someones belief or opinion. Please restore it so we can read it. Unless of course it was blatantly horrible.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Nov 23rd 3:27 AM
CRM.
Nothing to do with the spam. I am talking about the subject and content of this thread, it is, as you so ably state "blatantly horrible"...it is OBSCENE, in it's warmongering Nationalistic Jingoism.... "Fly the flag chaps , let's go and fight Johnny Foreigner who dares not to believe what we believe"....ad nauseum.

CRM
User ID: 9725373 Nov 23rd 11:08 PM
Lewis: I went back to the beginning of this thread and read it fully and slowly with an open mind. I concluded that I agree with you. Sometimes I (and many others) tend to read the comments on these threads without comprehending them. We're in too much of a hurry to get our own two cents (pence) worth in. I'm beginning to understand you and your mindset now and I find myself agreeing with you in many cases. (I never thought that I would ever say that). But anyhow. I understand you better now. And that's a good thing.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Nov 24th 5:04 AM
CRM.
Noble of you to say so.
I am aware that we disagree on many things but I admire your courage in admitting agreement, particularly on such a contentious issue. Obscenities disguised under the "glory" of the National Flag.
Both our Countries have histories where we should, on a humanitarian basis, be thoroughly ashamed.
Full marks to you.

Jim B
User ID: 1446254 Nov 24th 7:35 AM
I am somewhat confused; are we supposed to talk about saxophones under "Good Natured Banter"?I do believe it is ok to talk about historical facts and give some quotes (unless they are slanted in a way to destroy the meaning at the time originally given).Probably since the beginning of time some people have considered war noble, rather than the alternative---usually death.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Nov 24th 8:39 AM
Jim B. Of course you are right...it is OK to talk about any subject under "Good Natured Banter.
Fine to talk about history...but the unsavoury aspects of it, such as war, is a dubious subject in my view.
Of course "people have considered, from the beginning of time, that war is noble"...that is exactly my point; it is called conditioning and brainwashing...just like religion. Hear it enough times & you will believe it; however irrational.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Nov 25th 7:22 AM
Another thing that I do not understand, & proof that it is the victors who write history.
When the Germans invaded France in WW2, the French, used guerilla tactics as the French Resistance, performed heroic acts.
When we (the English) took over Ireland, the resisting IRA were labelled by us as "terrorists", yet they used exactly the same tactics as the Free French.

Jim B
User ID: 1446254 Nov 25th 7:57 AM
I agree with Captain Beeflat; unsavoury aspects of history should be revised to make it savory, even fun so we should do it again. Probably it is a good idea to talk about war and death and how noble it is. I believe Lincoln would actually say "Leave me out of the discussion!"

Guy-UK
User ID: 2254074 Nov 25th 12:58 PM
I don't understand where the Cap'n is coming from. This thread started off as a thread about peace and freedom. I agree with everything you say about war but what has that got to do with freedom?

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Nov 25th 1:47 PM
Guy.
It has everything to do with the PRICE of freedom...the price that others, innocents, paid.
For glory, read massacre.
Perhaps it could be justified if we had learnt from it...sadly, we have not.

Next 20 Messages

WW2 User ID: 0882114	May 3rd 12:05 PM If President Abraham Lincoln went to the site of the World Trade Center attacks today, what might he say? The following is a modification of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. The changes are minimal, updated mostly to reflect our modern world rather than the world of 1863. Yet the thoughts are so timely… Ladies and Gentlemen, The President of the United States of America, Abraham Lincoln: Eleven score and 10 years ago, our fathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation: conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great war against terror . . .testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated . . . can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate . . .we cannot consecrate . . . we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men and women, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work, which they who fought here have thus far so nobly, advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us . . .that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion . . . that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain . . . that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom . . . and that government of the people . . .by the people . . .for the people . . . shall not perish from the earth.
WW2 User ID: 0882114	May 3rd 12:22 PM And so, the calendar changes, but the struggle for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness continues against those that would oppress us. Although these thoughts are from American history, they apply equally to the entire Western World of today. For there shall always be oppressors that must be resisted. Whether that is a struggle against foreign attackers, or a struggle against our own governments, we must take courage and stand up for what is right. This is as true today as it was in 1776 in the United States of America. It is as true today as it was during the French Revolution in 1789. It is as true today as it was at the signing of the Magna Carta (aka Magna Charta) in 1215. It is as true today as it was during the Great World War (WWI) and during the Second World War (WWII, not WW2). I do not have much influence over the world at large, but I do have a small amount of influence over my small corner of the world. And so, this year, the Temecula All-City Community Band will dedicate its performance to the brave men and women around the world who have gone in harm’s way to ensure Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness is available to all the peoples, and creatures, of this planet.
Laura User ID: 0721754	May 10th 9:40 AM Wade, very nicely put!!!!! I don't know if you listen to Mannheim Steamroller, but on the CD American Spirit, part of Lincoln's speech is used in a piece called Tin Type. Take a listen if you get a chance :-)
Jim B User ID: 9092003	May 10th 12:42 PM Wade's comment reminded me of an introduction Lawrence Welk made on TV of a tune on his program years ago. He was reading off the tele-prompter and he said." Here is a tune written during World War eye eye." About a month ago I visited the Lincoln Presidential Museum in Springfield Il.When Lincoln gave the address quoted, many at the time were disapointed that the speech was so short.
Jim B User ID: 1913054	May 12th 8:49 AM The Gettysburg address was given Nov 19, 1863. The principal speaker Edward Everett went on for two hours... no one remembers what Mr. Everett said. March 1864 Lincoln put Grant in charge of the armies;two months later the advance to Richand and Sherman's march to the sea. Here his another quote: “Mr . Lincoln will go down as the man who could not read the sign of the times nor understand the circumstances and interests of his country; who could not calculate his own resources nor appreciate those of his enemy, who had no potential aptitude, who plunged his country into a great war without a plan, who failed without excuse, and fell without a friend.” From the London Morning Star , article called "Crisis", dated October 5, 1864
Guwapo User ID: 2233684	May 13th 6:13 AM .....here are the title deeds of freedom which should lie in every cottage home ....... we must never cease to proclaim in fearless tones the great principles of freedom and the rights of man which are the joint inheritance of the English-speaking world and which through Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights, the Habeas Corpus, trial by jury, and the English common law find their most famous expression in the American Declaration of Independence. Winston Churchill Fulton, Missouri. 5th March 1946.
Guy-UK User ID: 2233684	May 13th 6:27 AM What General Weygand called the Battle of France is over I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of pervert science. let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will say, ' "This was their Finest Hour' Winston Churchill
jazzbug1 User ID: 1626994	Nov 22nd 10:48 AM What a place for idiot John to put his spam. I sometimes think of all the unfinished lives who fell in wars: Another Beetoven, Einstein, or just a good dad or mom. Maybe its the dads and moms of the world who have to teach that violence is only a last resort and should always be avoided, but when facing a despot or terrorist, it must be used when all else fails. Too bad politics, power, and $$ get involved, so there are always wars of profit and power gain. Of course, the people who back these wars and their families are rarely in danger. Music and art are a good diversion from violent (usually male) behavior, so maybe we should send C Melodys to opponents on both sides, followed by pictures of happy children playing the saxophone.
ukebert Moderator User ID: 1300074	Nov 22nd 12:31 PM Jophn's spam has been deleted. If it continues I will sadly be forced to close the thread. Well said jb.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Nov 22nd 5:12 PM I really cannot believe this thread. The lovely world of saxophones has been hi jacked by unashamed nationalistic jingoism. Under the banner of "patriotism" I would ask you to reflect that this is just one short step from Fascism. Next to religious zealotism, patriotism & territory is the greatest excuse for war. There is nothing more obscene than war..it is disgusting; even worse dressed up as glorious..the glorious fallen..oh dear oh dear. War is the result of either failed, or hedonistic politicians. No-one is sadder than I to see soldiers die in battle; let us not forget however that this is their job (apart from the enlisted); no-one forced them to join the forces. They do not do it for the "glory", there is no glory. They do it for the money; just like policemen or accounts clerks. I worry about the future when I read such unadorned propaganda. As an atheist I am proud not to belong to this club...barbarism shrouded in the cloak of "glory". I have always had trouble separating religion from superstition in the same way that I find democracy another word for mob rule...now I no longer have this problem. Thank you, all you Nationalists, for convincing me that I am correct. Before all you Rednecks scream at me, I would ask you to read this post again...& think, (not be led like sheep), about your words.
Cool Runnin' Man User ID: 9725373	Nov 22nd 9:40 PM Captain Bb: I wish I could have read this bit of spam in order to have drawn my own opinion of it. Why was it deleted? Was it obscene or offensive? Or did it just clash with someones belief or opinion. Please restore it so we can read it. Unless of course it was blatantly horrible.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Nov 23rd 3:27 AM CRM. Nothing to do with the spam. I am talking about the subject and content of this thread, it is, as you so ably state "blatantly horrible"...it is OBSCENE, in it's warmongering Nationalistic Jingoism.... "Fly the flag chaps , let's go and fight Johnny Foreigner who dares not to believe what we believe"....ad nauseum.
CRM User ID: 9725373	Nov 23rd 11:08 PM Lewis: I went back to the beginning of this thread and read it fully and slowly with an open mind. I concluded that I agree with you. Sometimes I (and many others) tend to read the comments on these threads without comprehending them. We're in too much of a hurry to get our own two cents (pence) worth in. I'm beginning to understand you and your mindset now and I find myself agreeing with you in many cases. (I never thought that I would ever say that). But anyhow. I understand you better now. And that's a good thing.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Nov 24th 5:04 AM CRM. Noble of you to say so. I am aware that we disagree on many things but I admire your courage in admitting agreement, particularly on such a contentious issue. Obscenities disguised under the "glory" of the National Flag. Both our Countries have histories where we should, on a humanitarian basis, be thoroughly ashamed. Full marks to you.
Jim B User ID: 1446254	Nov 24th 7:35 AM I am somewhat confused; are we supposed to talk about saxophones under "Good Natured Banter"?I do believe it is ok to talk about historical facts and give some quotes (unless they are slanted in a way to destroy the meaning at the time originally given).Probably since the beginning of time some people have considered war noble, rather than the alternative---usually death.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Nov 24th 8:39 AM Jim B. Of course you are right...it is OK to talk about any subject under "Good Natured Banter. Fine to talk about history...but the unsavoury aspects of it, such as war, is a dubious subject in my view. Of course "people have considered, from the beginning of time, that war is noble"...that is exactly my point; it is called conditioning and brainwashing...just like religion. Hear it enough times & you will believe it; however irrational.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Nov 25th 7:22 AM Another thing that I do not understand, & proof that it is the victors who write history. When the Germans invaded France in WW2, the French, used guerilla tactics as the French Resistance, performed heroic acts. When we (the English) took over Ireland, the resisting IRA were labelled by us as "terrorists", yet they used exactly the same tactics as the Free French.
Jim B User ID: 1446254	Nov 25th 7:57 AM I agree with Captain Beeflat; unsavoury aspects of history should be revised to make it savory, even fun so we should do it again. Probably it is a good idea to talk about war and death and how noble it is. I believe Lincoln would actually say "Leave me out of the discussion!"
Guy-UK User ID: 2254074	Nov 25th 12:58 PM I don't understand where the Cap'n is coming from. This thread started off as a thread about peace and freedom. I agree with everything you say about war but what has that got to do with freedom?
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Nov 25th 1:47 PM Guy. It has everything to do with the PRICE of freedom...the price that others, innocents, paid. For glory, read massacre. Perhaps it could be justified if we had learnt from it...sadly, we have not.