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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Repairs and Refurbishing / Missed anything obvious ?

Back 20 Messages

alan (uk) '08
User ID: 1731514 Feb 14th 1:37 PM
Well, you wanted new topics.

I get quite a lot of useful info by reading the topics in the Saxontheweb "Repair" section, but don't like to comment much as I'm not that expert (by comparison to some) - or so I thought.

There was a topic about someone dismantling a Conn New Wonder, but had problems with stuck rods/screws.. After reading all the useful proferred 'freeing up' suggestions, I privately mailed the young dismantler and asked an obvious question - wanting to spare his blushes by asking on an open forum.

The question was "You do know about the little locking screws on the side of the pillars ? Are you trying to unscrew locked screws, by any chance ?"

He was, he hadn't notice the locking grubscrews, another Conn innovation........... Talk about experts missing the obvious.

So, what have you guys ever said "Doh !" about ?

jazzbug1 2008
User ID: 0735934 Feb 27th 6:38 AM
I met Tex Beneke's son about ten years ago. He noticed I was playing the exact horn his dad used, Conn 10M with a Link Tonemaster mouthpiece, both from 1941. His son was very pleasant and I'm told his dad was. Tex was not the great jazz innovator or outstanding soloist. He just played and sang what the generally unmusical public liked with his big, fat sax tone and neighborly voice. The Miller band in general played simple charts with a very danceable sound that sold tens of millions of records for RCA. None of the soloists was outstanding, but everyone was solid. I played with a few ex-Miller sidemen many years ago. They fondly recalled the band, but felt that Miller was not very friendly and was a demanding leader, although they understood he had to be that way to be successful. Muggles-- I agree totally with you. Most extremely schooled, or formally taught players tend to play a systematic rather sterile style of jazz. All these conservatory grads may be technical wizards, but most I hear lack the feel. There is a stream of consciousness during a solo and when one is thinking very intently of the notes in the chord, or the proper way through a passage, I feel the solo becomes stuffy and overly technical. I tell my students to "follow the flow" of a song and don't worry much about theory. If it sounds good, it is good.
Rely on your talent. If you don't have a great ear, then become a great reader. My brother could read rings around me, but played like a typewriter, as he was almost tone deaf.

dch
User ID: 7810373 Feb 27th 9:04 PM
Thanks Capt. Muggles,
for such an inspired response! You should know I only recognized a few of the names, but I totally respect your knowledge and appreciation for all those people who led you to greater heights past your beginnings with Tex.

When I was in the eighth grade, I discovered my dad's bluebird 78's. All Glenn Miller, well, a few Benny Goodmans too. Anyway, from then on I was turned on to big band and that era. I went out and bought some vinal 33's of Miller. Tried to emulate Tex on my student Selmer Bundy. I did not continue with sax out of high school which probably explains my love for the simple layman's preference for Miller. By the way, I love Phil Woods also, saw him in Columbus in '77. Just a side note... nothing to do with sax and everything to do with trombone. Who is the greatest next to Jack Teagartgen? (sp?) Answer: Bill Watrous. My recalling Phil Woods in the 70's reminded me of Manhatten Wildlife Refuge. Incredible T-bone. Anyway, I digress. Thanks. Capt. for the great answer. If you want to hear the exact Tex Beneke you describe,(and perhaps you have) "excellent tone and melodic solos understandable to the layman" listen to the Glenn Miller Carnegy hall concert album from 1939. Tex's solo on Sunrise Serenade is soooo juicy! The fast sax on Bugle Call Rag aint bad neither. Thanks Capt. Muggles!

dch
User ID: 7810373 Feb 27th 9:43 PM
Jazzbug1 2008,
Wow! I would love to hear stories from Beneke's son. I'll bet he had some great ones. And from Miller's side men? Pure gold, I'll bet. Just a side note. I really did like Beneke's vocals too, even though I said, "forget the corney vocals..." I actually love corn when it's good!!
It doesn't surprise me that Glenn Miller could be somewhat standoffish, or even an SOB on occasion. As you say, he had to be in order to get the band that he had, otherwise, he would have been selling insurance, and we'd never have heard of him. I know he was very comercial and appealed to the masses, but what the heck, I loved him. If you're ever in Dayton, Ohio and have time go to the air force Museum. You can see one of Miller's Trombones and other artifacts, plus his letter to the War Dept. suggesting his idea for serving in the air force band to help morale and the war effort. He gave up an incredible income (for that time) plus his band was at the top. It was quite a sacrifice, And that was before he lost his life doing it!!! He could have led a very cushy existence,on all those RCA residuals, but decided to contribute to the cause. OK, enough preaching. Some trivia... what was Glenn Miller's first name?

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 Feb 27th 10:54 PM
Is this question open to anyone, or just Jazzbug?

just in cAse, i'Ll Try tO eNcode it.

Captain Muggles
User ID: 2999764 Feb 27th 11:01 PM
dch...That's an easy one. The answer is Alton!

Captain Muggles
User ID: 2999764 Feb 27th 11:24 PM
dch...You are spot on about Bill Watrous, a great jazz and band player. Also Kai Winding, JJ Johnson, Bobby Brookmeyer (Valve Trombone), Al Grey and Ed Byrne, (Both Philadelphia Boys), Benny Green, Benny Powell, Urbie Green, Juan Tizol, Slide Hampton, Jimmy Knepper, JC Higgenbotham, Bill Harris, Carl Fontana (Most notably from Stan Kenton's Band in The early 60's I believe), Frank Rehak & Frank Rosolino. These guys were, and some still are the cream of the crop in the Jazz Trombone category. Try and give some of them a listen!

alan (uk) '08
User ID: 1278884 Feb 28th 4:25 AM
Mal - yes this topic is open to anyone, and it seems anything...

Just popped in to delete rafts of spam, but I might just paste some of it here - who knows what new direction the conversation may take ?

Viagra, anyone ?

dch
User ID: 7810373 Feb 28th 6:18 AM
I should have known you all would know Alton. Clever encoding Mal-2k8. So... what was Tex's real name?

Captain Muggles
User ID: 2999764 Feb 28th 6:43 AM
dch....Tex's full birth name is Gordon Lee Beneke!

dch
User ID: 9621663 Feb 28th 11:34 AM
Thanks Capt. Muggles,

When Miller would shout a prelude to Tex's live songs at performances - "Hey there Texas, what you say? How lony you been back in the USA?"
I guess that worked a lot better than, "Hey there Gordon, what you say..."

Sorry for the spam Alan (uk)'08. I'll go back to repairing topic when I report back on how my Conn Straight Neck C Mel turned out. But in the meantime think on this: Which is worse? Not restoring a horn, or restoring it only to have a duffer like me own it?

jazzbug1 2008
User ID: 0735934 Feb 28th 12:30 PM
Trombone: Bill Harris. Started with Woody Herman in the 1940s and played many years. Had a very almost comical sliding style. I would call him the "Frankie Trumbauer" of the trombone, due to what I hear is a similar style. No one else I've heard sounds like him.

Mal-2k8
User ID: 9335603 Feb 28th 9:25 PM
A local blues band (the Deacon Jones Blues Band, link below) has a Japanese guitarist, who goes by the nickname "Tokyo Mississippi".

Official page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=232168339

A couple shots from my own camera, at the Santa Monica Bar & Grill:
http://lethalwedgie.mal-2.com/6-15-07/IMG_3714.JPG
http://lethalwedgie.mal-2.com/6-15-07/IMG_3715.JPG

"Tokyo Mississippi" is about 5'5", the bass player is about 6'7". They're standing at the same level in both pictures.

dch
User ID: 8548253 Mar 21st 8:56 PM
just got my C melody conn straight neck back. Oh my God!!! it is beautiful!! Such a great playing instrument(never mind the player). They are truly under rated. The sound is great, tone, intonation, etc. I'm loving it. B 52 pads w/resonators, hand polished, felt, cork, etc replaced. a great restoration thanks to Dean Sandford. Check out Deansandfordmusic.com He's located in Milwaukee.

Back 20 Messages

alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1731514	Feb 14th 1:37 PM Well, you wanted new topics. I get quite a lot of useful info by reading the topics in the Saxontheweb "Repair" section, but don't like to comment much as I'm not that expert (by comparison to some) - or so I thought. There was a topic about someone dismantling a Conn New Wonder, but had problems with stuck rods/screws.. After reading all the useful proferred 'freeing up' suggestions, I privately mailed the young dismantler and asked an obvious question - wanting to spare his blushes by asking on an open forum. The question was "You do know about the little locking screws on the side of the pillars ? Are you trying to unscrew locked screws, by any chance ?" He was, he hadn't notice the locking grubscrews, another Conn innovation........... Talk about experts missing the obvious. So, what have you guys ever said "Doh !" about ?
jazzbug1 2008 User ID: 0735934	Feb 27th 6:38 AM I met Tex Beneke's son about ten years ago. He noticed I was playing the exact horn his dad used, Conn 10M with a Link Tonemaster mouthpiece, both from 1941. His son was very pleasant and I'm told his dad was. Tex was not the great jazz innovator or outstanding soloist. He just played and sang what the generally unmusical public liked with his big, fat sax tone and neighborly voice. The Miller band in general played simple charts with a very danceable sound that sold tens of millions of records for RCA. None of the soloists was outstanding, but everyone was solid. I played with a few ex-Miller sidemen many years ago. They fondly recalled the band, but felt that Miller was not very friendly and was a demanding leader, although they understood he had to be that way to be successful. Muggles-- I agree totally with you. Most extremely schooled, or formally taught players tend to play a systematic rather sterile style of jazz. All these conservatory grads may be technical wizards, but most I hear lack the feel. There is a stream of consciousness during a solo and when one is thinking very intently of the notes in the chord, or the proper way through a passage, I feel the solo becomes stuffy and overly technical. I tell my students to "follow the flow" of a song and don't worry much about theory. If it sounds good, it is good. Rely on your talent. If you don't have a great ear, then become a great reader. My brother could read rings around me, but played like a typewriter, as he was almost tone deaf.
dch User ID: 7810373	Feb 27th 9:04 PM Thanks Capt. Muggles, for such an inspired response! You should know I only recognized a few of the names, but I totally respect your knowledge and appreciation for all those people who led you to greater heights past your beginnings with Tex. When I was in the eighth grade, I discovered my dad's bluebird 78's. All Glenn Miller, well, a few Benny Goodmans too. Anyway, from then on I was turned on to big band and that era. I went out and bought some vinal 33's of Miller. Tried to emulate Tex on my student Selmer Bundy. I did not continue with sax out of high school which probably explains my love for the simple layman's preference for Miller. By the way, I love Phil Woods also, saw him in Columbus in '77. Just a side note... nothing to do with sax and everything to do with trombone. Who is the greatest next to Jack Teagartgen? (sp?) Answer: Bill Watrous. My recalling Phil Woods in the 70's reminded me of Manhatten Wildlife Refuge. Incredible T-bone. Anyway, I digress. Thanks. Capt. for the great answer. If you want to hear the exact Tex Beneke you describe,(and perhaps you have) "excellent tone and melodic solos understandable to the layman" listen to the Glenn Miller Carnegy hall concert album from 1939. Tex's solo on Sunrise Serenade is soooo juicy! The fast sax on Bugle Call Rag aint bad neither. Thanks Capt. Muggles!
dch User ID: 7810373	Feb 27th 9:43 PM Jazzbug1 2008, Wow! I would love to hear stories from Beneke's son. I'll bet he had some great ones. And from Miller's side men? Pure gold, I'll bet. Just a side note. I really did like Beneke's vocals too, even though I said, "forget the corney vocals..." I actually love corn when it's good!! It doesn't surprise me that Glenn Miller could be somewhat standoffish, or even an SOB on occasion. As you say, he had to be in order to get the band that he had, otherwise, he would have been selling insurance, and we'd never have heard of him. I know he was very comercial and appealed to the masses, but what the heck, I loved him. If you're ever in Dayton, Ohio and have time go to the air force Museum. You can see one of Miller's Trombones and other artifacts, plus his letter to the War Dept. suggesting his idea for serving in the air force band to help morale and the war effort. He gave up an incredible income (for that time) plus his band was at the top. It was quite a sacrifice, And that was before he lost his life doing it!!! He could have led a very cushy existence,on all those RCA residuals, but decided to contribute to the cause. OK, enough preaching. Some trivia... what was Glenn Miller's first name?
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Feb 27th 10:54 PM Is this question open to anyone, or just Jazzbug? just in cAse, i'Ll Try tO eNcode it.
Captain Muggles User ID: 2999764	Feb 27th 11:01 PM dch...That's an easy one. The answer is Alton!
Captain Muggles User ID: 2999764	Feb 27th 11:24 PM dch...You are spot on about Bill Watrous, a great jazz and band player. Also Kai Winding, JJ Johnson, Bobby Brookmeyer (Valve Trombone), Al Grey and Ed Byrne, (Both Philadelphia Boys), Benny Green, Benny Powell, Urbie Green, Juan Tizol, Slide Hampton, Jimmy Knepper, JC Higgenbotham, Bill Harris, Carl Fontana (Most notably from Stan Kenton's Band in The early 60's I believe), Frank Rehak & Frank Rosolino. These guys were, and some still are the cream of the crop in the Jazz Trombone category. Try and give some of them a listen!
alan (uk) '08 User ID: 1278884	Feb 28th 4:25 AM Mal - yes this topic is open to anyone, and it seems anything... Just popped in to delete rafts of spam, but I might just paste some of it here - who knows what new direction the conversation may take ? Viagra, anyone ?
dch User ID: 7810373	Feb 28th 6:18 AM I should have known you all would know Alton. Clever encoding Mal-2k8. So... what was Tex's real name?
Captain Muggles User ID: 2999764	Feb 28th 6:43 AM dch....Tex's full birth name is Gordon Lee Beneke!
dch User ID: 9621663	Feb 28th 11:34 AM Thanks Capt. Muggles, When Miller would shout a prelude to Tex's live songs at performances - "Hey there Texas, what you say? How lony you been back in the USA?" I guess that worked a lot better than, "Hey there Gordon, what you say..." Sorry for the spam Alan (uk)'08. I'll go back to repairing topic when I report back on how my Conn Straight Neck C Mel turned out. But in the meantime think on this: Which is worse? Not restoring a horn, or restoring it only to have a duffer like me own it?
jazzbug1 2008 User ID: 0735934	Feb 28th 12:30 PM Trombone: Bill Harris. Started with Woody Herman in the 1940s and played many years. Had a very almost comical sliding style. I would call him the "Frankie Trumbauer" of the trombone, due to what I hear is a similar style. No one else I've heard sounds like him.
Mal-2k8 User ID: 9335603	Feb 28th 9:25 PM A local blues band (the Deacon Jones Blues Band, link below) has a Japanese guitarist, who goes by the nickname "Tokyo Mississippi". Official page: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=232168339 A couple shots from my own camera, at the Santa Monica Bar & Grill: http://lethalwedgie.mal-2.com/6-15-07/IMG_3714.JPG http://lethalwedgie.mal-2.com/6-15-07/IMG_3715.JPG "Tokyo Mississippi" is about 5'5", the bass player is about 6'7". They're standing at the same level in both pictures.
dch User ID: 8548253	Mar 21st 8:56 PM just got my C melody conn straight neck back. Oh my God!!! it is beautiful!! Such a great playing instrument(never mind the player). They are truly under rated. The sound is great, tone, intonation, etc. I'm loving it. B 52 pads w/resonators, hand polished, felt, cork, etc replaced. a great restoration thanks to Dean Sandford. Check out Deansandfordmusic.com He's located in Milwaukee.