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C Melody Saxophone Forum / Mouthpieces Reeds and Ligatures / Aquilasax Metalpro

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Rob T
User ID: 8374593 Jan 9th 5:29 PM
Has anyone tested the new Aquilasax Metalpro C Mel mpc out yet? I had been going to get a rubber one from them but this new mouthpiece is very interesting. I have finished rebuilding a mint Holton C Mel and have been on the look out for a suitable mpc to give it a bigger sound. This could be what I am looking for, any views.....?

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Apr 13th 4:30 AM
So, the Aquilasax Metalpro has good tone, intonation and projection but is not particularly edgy.
Edgy is good to have in the arsenal, especially with a new C sax, to dispel the impression that C Mels are stuffy. Edge could be added, when necessary with a removable baffle, as in Runyon.
How about it Steve..just a wedge of plastic which jams part way down the throat.

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Apr 13th 5:52 AM
It's not an unusual concept, in that the Runyon mouthpieces come with an internal baffle, and I also have a very old alto mouthpiece that came with an assortment of plastic wedges, held in by a screw. Or indeed Zinner, with a sliding baffle.

The main thing for a mouthpiece (obviously after good intonation and playability) is 'presence', edge is a matter of personal taste. A few players experiment with inserts, at first with something easy, like modelling clay, then making the thing more permanent with epoxy.

Try as I may, tho', I can't think of any other manufacturers that offer an actual 'current' C-Melody mouthpiece in anything other than plastic/acrylic or rubber/ebonite - so Steve's metal Metalpro is a 21'st century 'first' ! Well done mate.....

(by the way, as I have an enquiring mind, I'm sure that User ID's are based on the individual computers 'MAC' address, rather than something like an IP - because my internet IP's are dynamic, but my ID usually stays the same for each machine....... So I'll leave it to Wade to explain the small print, if anyone is interested ! I left all that behind me over six years ago) Over to you Wade........

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Apr 13th 8:06 AM
I agree with everything you say Alan. Indeed, I have spent hours fiddling about with blu tac and the like. In braver (absolutely convinced) stages I have made semi permanent baffles using glass fibre paste.
Sure, good for Steve in that his is the first current C Mel. metal mouthpiece...full marks to him, but the fact remains that some like edge and it is so very easy, and inexpensive to achieve with a removable baffle.
Seems to me that I will continue to play my C Mel using my Bb tenor pieces, either JJ ESP (with spoiler) or my, "gosh, what a high baffle" Colletto; ...why change something that works so well, and play as edgy or sultry as called for.
In short, I do not need a dedicated C Mel. mouthpiece.

alan (uk)
User ID: 9245273 Apr 13th 8:26 AM
Lewis - I agree, I don't really need a dedicated C-Mel mouthpiece either - but it would be nice to have the option of a 'real world' C-Mel piece, with all due respect to the offerings from Runyon/Beechler etc.. Just to also seee how much I have to 'nurture' my tenor peices on C-Mels, fully automatic tho' the process is, I'll be the first to acknowledge that I do have to compensate some times..

And I think Steve's Metalpro goes a good way towards that goal, aside from his standard mouthpiece, and I really should try the Zinner Jazz C-Mel piece sometime......

I'ts all in the 'trying', and no amount of third-party waffle will bypass that stage. Gosh, isn't it nice to gently talk about musical things, with no angst..?

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Apr 13th 9:01 AM
It certainly is super with no angst. Perhaps,to ensure peace, we should divide up this forum with you, Owen and I posting to each other; Cap'n Muggles talking to Jungle Jim; Tox and ESP can just shout to each other over the girlfriend & Guwapo simply growling and muttering to himself.
All the other posters seem to either get on with all of us or just step in to keep us apart. Wade can keep us on an even keel and remind us how horrible it must be to be in a marching band...and he who lurks in the skirting board need only post when he sniffs a repair or sale.
All the above is tongue in cheek before someone starts a war. :-))
Back to mouthpieces:- Yes, I agree that it would be good to have a dedicated C Mel just to find out how much contortion is needed to keep a Bb mothpiece in tune. BUT, why also can I stay in tune with these other tenor pieces :- The other Colletto, one of two 6* Links, 2 Bergs, the Doc Pillinger "Slant Sig" copy, a Lewin, and a scroll shank Selmer C* (sound belies it's modest lay).
Nah, (to quote you) In all probability I would be horribly out of tune with a mouthpiece actually designed for my C Mel. :-))
To even things up I tried a plastic Windcraft C Mel. piece on my tenor....uuuggghhhh. No, it does not work that way around.

Castaway
User ID: 9182423 Apr 13th 10:19 AM
Forum Members***I'm glad I happened upon this site. It has everything. Intrigue, information, personal philosophies, crazy people, cranky people, fibbers, small spats to full blown battles, intellectuals, morons, exaggerators, and some people that do not have the slightest idea what they're talking about. and some that do.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Apr 13th 11:06 AM
Wecome Castaway...you are absolutely right, even if your number, by a remarkable co-incidence is identical to that of Jungle Jim. :-)

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Apr 13th 11:10 AM
The Windcraft cmel mouthpiece isn't too bad on my Buescher, but it's a bit bland. The Aquilasax ebonite one was in another league. Still not a fantastic piece by any means, but for the price way ahead of a lot of the competition. Problem is the neck cork. Like most people it seems, my neck cork is built up to accomodate tenor mpcs, so the auilasax one won't fit very well, and so is flat. On the cmel that I'm (very slowly) restoring, [i'm on the toothbrush stage, cleaning the grime off the keys very very carefully], I'll reduce the cork so that the Aquilasax mpcs will fit. You can always carry a little reel of that tape with you to fill it out after all.

The idea of a baffle inside the aquilasax mpc (is that the same as a 'spoiler'? please forgive, I still haven't got the hang of these terms) is interesting, Steve, if you're out there please take note.

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Apr 13th 11:59 AM
Ukebert.
The Windcraft is a total non starter in my experience, certainly compared with the sounds that can be wrung out of a C Mel using a weapons grade tenor piece.
Runyon's "spoiler" is indeed a wedge baffle. Part of the Runyon's "spoiler" consists of a length of light gauge metal strip which, the makers claim, vibrates ...a resonant frequency which is claimed to add a certain je ne sais quoi to the sound. Many, including myself, think that the metal strip does very little for the sound, if anything. However the spoiler (baffle) with or without the metal vibrator certainly puts an edge on the sound and makes the top end, including harmonics, much easier to play...like a Dukoff D chamber. Something of the bottom end richness is lost, but not much.
I have two mouthpieces with the "spoiler" provision, a Runyon quantum and a Jody Jazz ESP. Jody Espina started out modifying the already excellent Runyon pieces which have morphed into his own brand...he still retains the "spoiler" however in his own brand pieces. I play both mouthpieces with the spoiler always in place.
I really think that Steve has nothing to lose by offering a removable baffle to drag every sound possible out of his excellent clearly mouthpiece.

Castaway
User ID: 9182423 Apr 13th 12:08 PM
Captain Bflat****It is a remarkable coincidence. I am really Toxic ESB. I share a wireless network with Jungle Jim. I am stealing his signal via of a NASA satellite that is routed to Alan Tucker's network modum, which is then bounced off of a commercial satteeite dish located in the Ural Mountain Range in Russia. It then goes through a decoding system in Langley, Virginia deep in the heart of the CIA compound located there. Also, Scotland Yard is monitoring all of this because all of the IP addresses put in a specific order give out the plans for an Alien invasion of the United Kingdom. These IP addresses are in code of course. So far no nation has been able to decode these IP's. I believe the whole thing is an Alien plot hatched on the Planet Mars to gather up every C melody saxophone that the Martians can get their hands (fins, claws, appendages) on. That's why they are zeroing in on this forum. What do we really know about Wade anyway. Does anyone of us know he really exists in the forms that we have seen in his photos. I don't think so.

WW2
User ID: 8973393 Apr 13th 12:22 PM
Here is all the forum guidebook says about authentication (user IDs):

"This forum system allows users to post under multiple names, inputting their name for each message. However, some users may wish to identify themselves in such a way that another user cannot impersonate him or her by posting under the same name. Authenticating a user displays a special code identifying the user by his or her computer. Thus any message without this unique User ID is likely not from the original user. "

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Apr 13th 1:24 PM
Castaway - or should I say Jungle Jim.....?

You really should use a different computer if you're going to pretend you're a new user - was that the Urals or the Anals that it gets bounced off ?

We get (for our sins) a shedload of 'Murkin TV programmes these days, and this forum gets more like Crank Yankers at times. And I'll leave it to your imagination as to what the Cockney rhyming slang is for "Crank Yankers" is....

;-))

Connman
User ID: 1689844 Apr 13th 5:09 PM
Here we go again! By way of attempting another "Debunk" I can't say anything about the Aquilla mp, however I'm pleased with the combination of my recent buy of an Otto Link 7* with my 1929 Beuscher C Mel.
The mp was bought for my latest tennor sax originally.

Mr. Debunk
User ID: 1689844 Apr 13th 5:22 PM
Otto link 7* mmmmmmmmm nice mature sound.

ukebert
User ID: 7921973 Apr 14th 5:44 AM
Lewis, If only there was a Cmel mouthpiece that compared with a "weapons grade" tenor piece...
;-))

alan (uk)
User ID: 8200143 Apr 14th 5:45 AM
Ken/Connm./Deb. - I know Steve initially copied the original C-Mel mouthpieces, with a more open lay etc. - but I often wonder how, and with what level of testing, the few modern C-Mel mpc manufacturers arrived at their 'offerings' ?

I suspect they settled on a nominal size, something 'in-between alto & tenor size', faced for tenor reeds (which in itself says something - why are none faced for alto reeds, just 'cos tenor is a semitone closer ?), minimal testing (certainly not extensively with all the Big Four saxes...), and a "suck it and see" approach to a sceptical (or gullible/captive, depending on how you see it) market.

Anyone been approached, or know of anyone who's been approached, or even heard rumours of anyone who's been involved, in the testing or R&D ? Or even had their opinions canvassed ? Steve did that ! And I think Morgan mouthpieces also have attracted feedback - but what of the others ? We are a very small community. So it's just a mouthpiece maker, with (hopefully) a C-Mel, moistened finger in the air to test wind direction, and a bit of voodoo for good luck.....?

Are we considered a looney minority who should just be grateful for the few choices that are offered us ? After all, that's why (I suspect) most of us use tenor mouthpieces.

Yes....... (I know I'm a sceptic, but then I've worked in R&D before !) Respond please, with pertinent comments ONLY !

Captain Beeflat
User ID: 1738604 Apr 14th 7:36 AM
Alan...Yes, we are a looney minority. I think that the mouthpiece makers still regard the C Mel as a "parlour, folkie or church" instrument; ie. not used in environments where "proper" saxophones howl. Consequently their offerings are on the bland side.
Surely someone with an Aquilasax Metalpro should play around with a baffle...any takers? Or perhaps the mouthpiece makers know that most of us will use tenor pieces anyway.
I simply cannot understand how you even dream of wanting a C Mel piece faced for alto reeds unless you are going all girlie. :-) Half the reason for my use of a tenor piece on a C Mel is that I can use baritone reeds.

Owen. Why concern yourself about the lack of a C Mel weapons grade mouthpiece...just clap on a weapons grade tenor piece. With alto length/bore ratio however, the C Mel will never have the power, grunt or presence of the Bb tenor.

Cool Runnin' Man
User ID: 9725373 Apr 14th 6:09 PM
This forum has done more for the popularity increase in C melody saxes than all the other websites combined. It seems that word of mouth about this forum has done wonders. C melody saxophones have a mystique about them that breeds a fanatical following. Now that they are becoming more popular, you will start to see a plethora of accessories that were never available. Well done contributors of this forum. Amidst all the bickering and infighting here, the important opinions and information that emerge are well worth the tolerance of the other stuff. It is paying off.

bruce bailey
User ID: 0227464 Apr 15th 1:03 AM
I like my aquilasax but I think .085" would suit most players.

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages Newest 20 Messages

Rob T User ID: 8374593	Jan 9th 5:29 PM Has anyone tested the new Aquilasax Metalpro C Mel mpc out yet? I had been going to get a rubber one from them but this new mouthpiece is very interesting. I have finished rebuilding a mint Holton C Mel and have been on the look out for a suitable mpc to give it a bigger sound. This could be what I am looking for, any views.....?
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Apr 13th 4:30 AM So, the Aquilasax Metalpro has good tone, intonation and projection but is not particularly edgy. Edgy is good to have in the arsenal, especially with a new C sax, to dispel the impression that C Mels are stuffy. Edge could be added, when necessary with a removable baffle, as in Runyon. How about it Steve..just a wedge of plastic which jams part way down the throat.
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Apr 13th 5:52 AM It's not an unusual concept, in that the Runyon mouthpieces come with an internal baffle, and I also have a very old alto mouthpiece that came with an assortment of plastic wedges, held in by a screw. Or indeed Zinner, with a sliding baffle. The main thing for a mouthpiece (obviously after good intonation and playability) is 'presence', edge is a matter of personal taste. A few players experiment with inserts, at first with something easy, like modelling clay, then making the thing more permanent with epoxy. Try as I may, tho', I can't think of any other manufacturers that offer an actual 'current' C-Melody mouthpiece in anything other than plastic/acrylic or rubber/ebonite - so Steve's metal Metalpro is a 21'st century 'first' ! Well done mate..... (by the way, as I have an enquiring mind, I'm sure that User ID's are based on the individual computers 'MAC' address, rather than something like an IP - because my internet IP's are dynamic, but my ID usually stays the same for each machine....... So I'll leave it to Wade to explain the small print, if anyone is interested ! I left all that behind me over six years ago) Over to you Wade........
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Apr 13th 8:06 AM I agree with everything you say Alan. Indeed, I have spent hours fiddling about with blu tac and the like. In braver (absolutely convinced) stages I have made semi permanent baffles using glass fibre paste. Sure, good for Steve in that his is the first current C Mel. metal mouthpiece...full marks to him, but the fact remains that some like edge and it is so very easy, and inexpensive to achieve with a removable baffle. Seems to me that I will continue to play my C Mel using my Bb tenor pieces, either JJ ESP (with spoiler) or my, "gosh, what a high baffle" Colletto; ...why change something that works so well, and play as edgy or sultry as called for. In short, I do not need a dedicated C Mel. mouthpiece.
alan (uk) User ID: 9245273	Apr 13th 8:26 AM Lewis - I agree, I don't really need a dedicated C-Mel mouthpiece either - but it would be nice to have the option of a 'real world' C-Mel piece, with all due respect to the offerings from Runyon/Beechler etc.. Just to also seee how much I have to 'nurture' my tenor peices on C-Mels, fully automatic tho' the process is, I'll be the first to acknowledge that I do have to compensate some times.. And I think Steve's Metalpro goes a good way towards that goal, aside from his standard mouthpiece, and I really should try the Zinner Jazz C-Mel piece sometime...... I'ts all in the 'trying', and no amount of third-party waffle will bypass that stage. Gosh, isn't it nice to gently talk about musical things, with no angst..?
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Apr 13th 9:01 AM It certainly is super with no angst. Perhaps,to ensure peace, we should divide up this forum with you, Owen and I posting to each other; Cap'n Muggles talking to Jungle Jim; Tox and ESP can just shout to each other over the girlfriend & Guwapo simply growling and muttering to himself. All the other posters seem to either get on with all of us or just step in to keep us apart. Wade can keep us on an even keel and remind us how horrible it must be to be in a marching band...and he who lurks in the skirting board need only post when he sniffs a repair or sale. All the above is tongue in cheek before someone starts a war. :-)) Back to mouthpieces:- Yes, I agree that it would be good to have a dedicated C Mel just to find out how much contortion is needed to keep a Bb mothpiece in tune. BUT, why also can I stay in tune with these other tenor pieces :- The other Colletto, one of two 6* Links, 2 Bergs, the Doc Pillinger "Slant Sig" copy, a Lewin, and a scroll shank Selmer C* (sound belies it's modest lay). Nah, (to quote you) In all probability I would be horribly out of tune with a mouthpiece actually designed for my C Mel. :-)) To even things up I tried a plastic Windcraft C Mel. piece on my tenor....uuuggghhhh. No, it does not work that way around.
Castaway User ID: 9182423	Apr 13th 10:19 AM Forum Members***I'm glad I happened upon this site. It has everything. Intrigue, information, personal philosophies, crazy people, cranky people, fibbers, small spats to full blown battles, intellectuals, morons, exaggerators, and some people that do not have the slightest idea what they're talking about. and some that do.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Apr 13th 11:06 AM Wecome Castaway...you are absolutely right, even if your number, by a remarkable co-incidence is identical to that of Jungle Jim. :-)
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Apr 13th 11:10 AM The Windcraft cmel mouthpiece isn't too bad on my Buescher, but it's a bit bland. The Aquilasax ebonite one was in another league. Still not a fantastic piece by any means, but for the price way ahead of a lot of the competition. Problem is the neck cork. Like most people it seems, my neck cork is built up to accomodate tenor mpcs, so the auilasax one won't fit very well, and so is flat. On the cmel that I'm (very slowly) restoring, [i'm on the toothbrush stage, cleaning the grime off the keys very very carefully], I'll reduce the cork so that the Aquilasax mpcs will fit. You can always carry a little reel of that tape with you to fill it out after all. The idea of a baffle inside the aquilasax mpc (is that the same as a 'spoiler'? please forgive, I still haven't got the hang of these terms) is interesting, Steve, if you're out there please take note.
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Apr 13th 11:59 AM Ukebert. The Windcraft is a total non starter in my experience, certainly compared with the sounds that can be wrung out of a C Mel using a weapons grade tenor piece. Runyon's "spoiler" is indeed a wedge baffle. Part of the Runyon's "spoiler" consists of a length of light gauge metal strip which, the makers claim, vibrates ...a resonant frequency which is claimed to add a certain je ne sais quoi to the sound. Many, including myself, think that the metal strip does very little for the sound, if anything. However the spoiler (baffle) with or without the metal vibrator certainly puts an edge on the sound and makes the top end, including harmonics, much easier to play...like a Dukoff D chamber. Something of the bottom end richness is lost, but not much. I have two mouthpieces with the "spoiler" provision, a Runyon quantum and a Jody Jazz ESP. Jody Espina started out modifying the already excellent Runyon pieces which have morphed into his own brand...he still retains the "spoiler" however in his own brand pieces. I play both mouthpieces with the spoiler always in place. I really think that Steve has nothing to lose by offering a removable baffle to drag every sound possible out of his excellent clearly mouthpiece.
Castaway User ID: 9182423	Apr 13th 12:08 PM Captain Bflat****It is a remarkable coincidence. I am really Toxic ESB. I share a wireless network with Jungle Jim. I am stealing his signal via of a NASA satellite that is routed to Alan Tucker's network modum, which is then bounced off of a commercial satteeite dish located in the Ural Mountain Range in Russia. It then goes through a decoding system in Langley, Virginia deep in the heart of the CIA compound located there. Also, Scotland Yard is monitoring all of this because all of the IP addresses put in a specific order give out the plans for an Alien invasion of the United Kingdom. These IP addresses are in code of course. So far no nation has been able to decode these IP's. I believe the whole thing is an Alien plot hatched on the Planet Mars to gather up every C melody saxophone that the Martians can get their hands (fins, claws, appendages) on. That's why they are zeroing in on this forum. What do we really know about Wade anyway. Does anyone of us know he really exists in the forms that we have seen in his photos. I don't think so.
WW2 User ID: 8973393	Apr 13th 12:22 PM Here is all the forum guidebook says about authentication (user IDs): "This forum system allows users to post under multiple names, inputting their name for each message. However, some users may wish to identify themselves in such a way that another user cannot impersonate him or her by posting under the same name. Authenticating a user displays a special code identifying the user by his or her computer. Thus any message without this unique User ID is likely not from the original user. "
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Apr 13th 1:24 PM Castaway - or should I say Jungle Jim.....? You really should use a different computer if you're going to pretend you're a new user - was that the Urals or the Anals that it gets bounced off ? We get (for our sins) a shedload of 'Murkin TV programmes these days, and this forum gets more like Crank Yankers at times. And I'll leave it to your imagination as to what the Cockney rhyming slang is for "Crank Yankers" is.... ;-))
Connman User ID: 1689844	Apr 13th 5:09 PM Here we go again! By way of attempting another "Debunk" I can't say anything about the Aquilla mp, however I'm pleased with the combination of my recent buy of an Otto Link 7* with my 1929 Beuscher C Mel. The mp was bought for my latest tennor sax originally.
Mr. Debunk User ID: 1689844	Apr 13th 5:22 PM *Otto link 7 mmmmmmmmm nice mature sound.**
ukebert User ID: 7921973	Apr 14th 5:44 AM Lewis, If only there was a Cmel mouthpiece that compared with a "weapons grade" tenor piece... ;-))
alan (uk) User ID: 8200143	Apr 14th 5:45 AM Ken/Connm./Deb. - I know Steve initially copied the original C-Mel mouthpieces, with a more open lay etc. - but I often wonder how, and with what level of testing, the few modern C-Mel mpc manufacturers arrived at their 'offerings' ? I suspect they settled on a nominal size, something 'in-between alto & tenor size', faced for tenor reeds (which in itself says something - why are none faced for alto reeds, just 'cos tenor is a semitone closer ?), minimal testing (certainly not extensively with all the Big Four saxes...), and a "suck it and see" approach to a sceptical (or gullible/captive, depending on how you see it) market. Anyone been approached, or know of anyone who's been approached, or even heard rumours of anyone who's been involved, in the testing or R&D ? Or even had their opinions canvassed ? Steve did that ! And I think Morgan mouthpieces also have attracted feedback - but what of the others ? We are a very small community. So it's just a mouthpiece maker, with (hopefully) a C-Mel, moistened finger in the air to test wind direction, and a bit of voodoo for good luck.....? Are we considered a looney minority who should just be grateful for the few choices that are offered us ? After all, that's why (I suspect) most of us use tenor mouthpieces. Yes....... (I know I'm a sceptic, but then I've worked in R&D before !) Respond please, with pertinent comments ONLY !
Captain Beeflat User ID: 1738604	Apr 14th 7:36 AM Alan...Yes, we are a looney minority. I think that the mouthpiece makers still regard the C Mel as a "parlour, folkie or church" instrument; ie. not used in environments where "proper" saxophones howl. Consequently their offerings are on the bland side. Surely someone with an Aquilasax Metalpro should play around with a baffle...any takers? Or perhaps the mouthpiece makers know that most of us will use tenor pieces anyway. I simply cannot understand how you even dream of wanting a C Mel piece faced for alto reeds unless you are going all girlie. :-) Half the reason for my use of a tenor piece on a C Mel is that I can use baritone reeds. Owen. Why concern yourself about the lack of a C Mel weapons grade mouthpiece...just clap on a weapons grade tenor piece. With alto length/bore ratio however, the C Mel will never have the power, grunt or presence of the Bb tenor.
Cool Runnin' Man User ID: 9725373	Apr 14th 6:09 PM This forum has done more for the popularity increase in C melody saxes than all the other websites combined. It seems that word of mouth about this forum has done wonders. C melody saxophones have a mystique about them that breeds a fanatical following. Now that they are becoming more popular, you will start to see a plethora of accessories that were never available. Well done contributors of this forum. Amidst all the bickering and infighting here, the important opinions and information that emerge are well worth the tolerance of the other stuff. It is paying off.
bruce bailey User ID: 0227464	Apr 15th 1:03 AM I like my aquilasax but I think .085" would suit most players.